I note this in the Guardian this morning:
When Carrie Paechter, a professor at Nottingham Trent University, tweeted two weeks ago that students could register to vote at both their home and term-time addresses, she didn't anticipate the tirade of anger it would unleash. She was reported to the police and the Electoral Commission, and someone wrote to her vice-chancellor calling for her to be disciplined.
Prof Paechter, who is director of Nottingham Centre for Children, Young People and Families, posted what she thought was an innocuous tweet on a Thursday evening. By Sunday she had blocked 568 people on Twitter who were furiously accusing her of encouraging students to break the law and vote twice. She insists she had no such intention, and simply wanted to ensure students didn't miss out on voting in the general election, because they didn't know their rights.
I would suggest that the response is coordinated, deliberate and an attempt to discourage students from voting at all - especially as the election is on near enough the last day of this term.
I'd also suggest that students are more than capable of realising that they can only vote once.
In that case I think this is part of the deliberate far-right attempt to undermine democracy that is now rampant. Second, they come for that part of the electorate who might not like their views.
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I too am convinced of a concerted attempt to undermine democracy – and not just in the UK. We are part of a wider ‘plot’. Only yesterday Quinn Slobodian had a piece in the Guardian which you will have seen: Democracy doesn’t matter to the defenders of ‘economic freedom’ https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/11/democracy-defenders-economic-freedom-neoliberalism. And is it irrelevant that Nigel Farage openly embraced Fascist tendencies as a teenager at Dulwich College? (https://www.channel4.com/news/nigel-farage-ukip-letter-school-concerns-racism-fascism).
Hence, it’s never been more important for students, and all young people, to make 100% sure they’re registered and be certain of voting. And so I implore everyone with any influence over, or connection with, young people of voting age to encourage them strongly to vote on the day – even if there’s a force 11 gale blowing. It’s their future. And their votes WILL make a difference.
Strongly agreed….
I didn’t know anyone could register twice until recently.
I don’t think it is right for anyone to do so. It is a breach of the ‘one person one vote’ principle in the social contract on which democracy depends. It’s a form of cheating.
You can argue whether or not the actions taken against this academic are proportionate. However, this professor is in the wrong here.
No she’s not
I did it as a student and voted once
And that’s exactly the same now
Don’t be absurd
This is allowing people to vote where they are
Thanks, but it seems an obvious avenue for voter fraud. What controls are there in place to stop voting twice?
If you are to vote ‘where you are’, then presumably that should be your university town, not your parents’ town.
But either way, choose one and vote there. If you choose your parents’ home but can’t physically get there on the day, then register for a postal vote and get your parents to forward the mail. Not difficult.
But there is no evidence of the fraud happening
But lots of evidence of students not voting
Using your logic let’s ban cars – they obviously open the possibility of speeding crime; and dammit, we even know that happens
As long as you only vote once you are not breaking any law. I have been onto this ladies Twitter feed and the day after she clarified her original statement stating categorically that you can only vote once so I cannot understand why people are getting so worked up about.
Quite so
But look at the stupid (I mean that) comments by Brian here
There is no evidence of fraud because you’d have to be stupid or unlucky to get caught.
Your analogy around banning cars doesn’t work because cars have a purpose. Having a 2nd voter registration has no purpose given you can’t lawfully use the 2nd vote.
The better analogy is putting a beer tap in a high school. You’d be asking for trouble, for no good purpose.
I won’t be recommending my own children (young adults) to do this. Register once, vote once.
Brian
Of course it has a purpose
It is to vote where you are
I presume you’re being stupid deliberately. There is no other possible explanation for your comment
Now politely, go away and troll elsewhere and stop denying young people their chance to vote where they are that the law deliberately permits
I hope your children rumble your foolishness
Richard
I’m Australian and I think Brian has a good point.
Australians cannot register in 2 different places at the same time (s99 Commonwealth Electoral Act). It seems an obvious protection against voter fraud that has bipartisan support.
If you move, it is easy to register in the new place. That’s what students should do if they wish to vote in the new town where they live, and not where their parents live.
You’re free to disagree with it, but a big leap to dismiss something that has been in place for a long time in a well established democracy as ‘stupid’.
How about you think assisting people to vote is ‘sensible’?
Why not adopt it?
And maybe your students tend to go to their home city university? Ours don’t
Plenty of Australians study outside their home city – and go further in terms of distance than British people do.
When you say ‘assist’, what is difficult about putting yourself on one register while also removing yourself from the other? It is done online – you put in your new address, you put in your old address, a few other details and that’s it. You are now registered in one electorate, not in two.
The issue isn’t about changing your electorate, it is about not being registered twice. It seems to me overwhelmingly the wrong thing to do.
We will have to agree to disagree on this.
It isn’t difficult.
it’s legal
It’s practical
It increases voter turnout
There is no evidence of fraud
Sorry – but you’re just wrong
Yes, sorry Brian. Registering twice does not mean voting twice — voting twice being the illegal action.
Unless someone were stupid enough to vote twice (I assume, but may be wrong, that there are checks in place to discover any double voting), they are not breaching the ‘one person, one vote’ principle.
Unless you prefer the Ankh-Morporkian principle: ‘One man – one vote, and Mr Johnson was that man’ (to paraphrase)
What controls are there in place to stop you voting twice? I don’t think there is much, if any.
I’m registered to vote by post, so it is a while since I last voted in person.
But I recall you don’t need ID to vote. And you can still vote if you’ve lost your polling card https://www.gov.uk/voting-in-the-uk#voting-in-person
If that is right, what stops a student voting by post in his/her old electorate (ie where the family lives) and then in person (without showing ID) in his/her university town? And if they did match up the same person voted twice, how do the authorities prove it was him or her who voted in the university town, and not someone else?
You’d have to be unlucky/careless to be caught.
But there is no evidence it happens
Mr Davidson,
It is legitimate for students to register twice but they may vote only once. FYI it is also legitimate for homeless people whether they are sofa-surfers, squatters or on the streets to register to vote. I spoke to an electoral registration officer and he said “If they have an email address we can email the necessary stuff to them”. We should be encouraging everyone to register AND to vote.
Agreed
Democracy depends on full enfranchisement; if a proportion of the electorate are disenfranchised due to temporary and necessary location then you no more have a a fully functioning democracy than you do under a system that disenfranchises members of the electorate on the grounds of race, religion, gender or political affiliation.
This is just the situation many found themselves in in the EU referendum, clearly affected by any outcome but unable to vote because of their geographic location. This serves to remind us once again of the absence of democracy in that process.
I was certainly on the electoral register at home and in my university constituency while I was an undergraduate, many years ago, and I can recall in voting in various elections at home or away, depending on where I was on polling day.
As I recall, if you are validly registered in more than one place, then in local elections you can legitimately vote in each place. But not in general elections. It is laid out in very clear terms by the Electoral Commission, here: https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/voter/students
I share your experience
I did vote in local elections at home and university on the same day – knowing it was an experience I would not repeat
In 2018 11 million people voted in various elections, primarily local government but also a byelection in Peterborough with allegations of voter fraud at the polling booth amounting to eight, I believe, a tiny fraction.
Where the new system of photo ID was trialled in one of the constituencies over 1,800 were turned away with 700 odd not returning to vote at all.
The commotion over student voting is ,as you suggest, part of a wider narrative to disenfranchise many more voters. The government’s intention to introduce voter ID with a photo ID is using a sledgehammer to crack a very
tiny nut.
All that should happen is that voters are required to present their voting card when voting, which they are not currently, kept for reference, and also a pin number could be sent separately which could also be requested by the polling officer. This would eliminate any possibility of voting twice even by students, allegedly.
Therefore the cost to the individual elector would be zero, as it should be in a democracy, as they would not bear any cost by having to produce a driving licence, passport or anything else containing a current photograph of themselves.
The Electoral Reform Society (of which I am a member) would agree with you
I suspect this is because a certain campaign group encouraged and was actively involved in getting students to vote twice in the last election, and I know for a fact (from friends who are still members of that group) that they are running a similar set of tactics this time around.
What campaign?
Momentum. I used to be a member but left for various reasons including this one.
It certainly happened in my area that certain people voted twice – once at home at once at university. There are plenty of cases of the less intelligent telling people about it – some on twitter no less. I was also witness to various other illegal election practices, not least intimidation.
So it is a joke to say it doesn’t ever happen and don’t think our side is any better than their side – because in a lot of cases it is far worse.
On another related topic: to all the people saying that voters shouldn’t need Id to vote? Well, you know you need photo Id and membership card to get into Labor conference, most momentum branches and to vote in most local Labour part branches. If it is fine there, why isn’t it fine for the general election?
You know large numbers of people don’t have such ID, don’t you?
Why disenfranchise them?
What’s your plan?
“I know for a fact….” always carries the same weight as the Trumpian “Many people tell me….” until backed up by verifiable evidence.
Well covered here …
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/voter/students
The interesting bits (with some emphasis added)…
If you’re a student, you may be able to register to vote at both your home address and your term-time address.
You CAN’T vote at BOTH your home address and your term-time address in a NATIONAL poll, even if the addresses are in different areas of the country.
If your home and university addresses are in two different local authority areas, you CAN vote in LOCAL elections in BOTH areas.
Precisely
How is this checked?
I would suggest it is very difficult to check for people who vote twice, but it is worth remembering two things:
1) This doesn’t just apply to students. Anybody with two homes in different constituencies could register in two locations, as long as they use both homes regularly. You aren’t really restricted to two registrations, you could have even more if you have homes in more than two constituencies!
2) It would seemingly double your chances of being called for jury duty if you are registered to vote in two places.
I was once accosted on the doorstep by somebody responsible for registering voters. They insisted on registering me at the address in question despite the fact that I explained that my home was elsewhere and I was only staying in the property temporarily.
Well, obviously, there is no problem if a rich blond right-thinking person, with a work-related flat in Westminster, and a country cottage in Thame, and a family house in Camberwell, happens to be on the electoral register in two or three different places. As long as he only votes once in the general election, of course. But we can’t trust the pesky students.
Hi Richard,
I’m sure that the number of students that vote twice is a massive problem – much more of a problem than the 30% or so of people that don’t vote at all! Are there actually any statistics on how much of a problem it is/has anyone attempted to quantify this or other voter fraud?
It is sickening that the idea of compulsory photo ID for voting is even being discussed – it will be pushing this country down the same disreputable path that has been followed in the US, with ludicrous measures being taken to suppress the votes of poor people.
There is simply almost no evidence of voter fraud in the U.K., barring, possibly in postal votes
And we are not discussing them
Plenty of people have more than one home, a “second home” even, and may well register at each and decide tactically where to vote, particular if one is in a safe constituency and one in a marginal.
This triggers the thought of tax. A council can give a council tax discount on second homes, or can, in Wales anyway, impose a premium on them (in Pembrokeshire of 50%). There must be definitional questions here, but being registered to vote at the place might be evidence of it being the primary residence?
And – London is rammed with ‘second homes’, often newly built tall buildings – Canary Wharf, Nine Elms, etc, etc. and at the same time has a massive housing shortage. Could London councils impose second home premiums and, if so to what effect?
I would suggest that they should