As the BBC has noted, we now know as a result of the Mandelson disclosures that:
The man who is now work and pensions secretary described conversations he had with other Labour politicians about the welfare system and public spending in a pretty blunt way.
"Every meeting I have is 'who can we tax in order to pay benefits to others'," Pat McFadden wrote to Lord Mandelson in May 2025.
"They're asking the wrong questions," McFadden adds.
Allies of McFadden point out that message was sent before he was in charge of the UK's benefits regime. He was running the cabinet office at the time.
That's a lame excuse. The reality is, as I know from several meetings with him over an extended period, Pat McFadden is a man of very little intelligence, and even less curiosity. He is also a true heir to Blair, and his fundamentally neoliberal to his core. The consequences are threefold.
First, he does not believe in redistribution. So very typical of Labour, these days, then.
Second, he does not understand that taxes do not pay for anything.
Third, he does not understand that money is created by the government when it spends.
What does all this mean?
First, his lack of curiosity should bar him from public office.
Secondly, he should never have had a role in Labour, or in the current government, or responsibility for work and pensions.
Third, he should learn to ask the right questions, because at present, he clearly cannot because he lacks the education to do so.
If you want an explanation for the mess that Labour is in, Pat McFadden can provide it, single-handedly.
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I saw the headline last night In the express and thought YET another slur on social security. And this time, even more twisted.
As you say Richard, McFadden is just another neo-liberal ghoul, up there with the cons Stride.
The Conservative party had a Facebook post about this quote last night, put up by my MP.
My MP’s comment was “spending on benefits is too high and the Conservatives will reduce it. We are taxing the people who do the right thing too much. And spending too much on those who don’t.’
Such a lack of vision
Agreed
Technically, though, he is correct. That Is the wrong question, just not in the way he certainly meant.
That was my first thought too
We can reframe this. The question the Labour MPs are asking is a good one for the near and future system if broadened out a bit … How can we fund all the universal benefits we will need when AI has ensured that nearly everyone is unemployed ?
Of course McFadden’s remark has been highlighted<p>
It reinforces and continues to embed the only thought we are allowed – that there is no money. <p>
last week it was Blair. This week its McFadden.<p>
‘Taxes too high, spending too high, pensions too high, NHS too expensive etc etc <p>
The message is the only one the BBC will allow
The unacceptable cost of MPs, The Lords and royalty and their ridiculous expenses.
McFadden had a reputation for being a nasty piece of work when I was in Labour (1970-2020). His wife is a Blair protegee, and Deputy General sec of Labour, a position of real power.
McFadden is actually correct when he says “They’re asking the wrong questions” – just perhaps not quite in the way he means.
Similarly, Kemi Badenoch’s response is also partially correct:
“As I’ve said repeatedly, Labour MPs don’t understand where money comes from. They think our taxes are their money to spend, rather than the result of the hard work of the people in our country who deserve so much better.”
Labour MPs may not understand where money comes from, but I bet she doesn’t, either.
Agreed
“Third, he should learn to ask the right questions, because at present, he clearly cannot because he lacks the education to do so.” – Neatly links back to your other post regarding the state of education. It’s a self-perpetuating cycle: poorer education produces poorer politicians, produces poorer education….etc.
Imagine if we could reverse that cycle!
🙂
Proof, as if it was needed that LINO is no longer the vehicle for progress. They are completely undeserving of our vote. They are completely bereft of ideas, moribund and politically lost. It will be interesting to see what Burham has to say about this? If I was him I would be asking myself, why am I a member of the show of Poo!
Sadly, even if Burnham’s intentions are good, he is at best going to be a Labour PM stuck in a very Reformy seat. He can lead Labour to an election victory or retain his constituency seat, he can’t do both because they require very different policies. No wonder Starmer’s stooges let him stand for this one.
Proof, as if it was needed that LINO is no longer the vehicle for progress. They are completely undeserving of our vote. They are completely bereft of ideas, moribund and politically lost. It will be interesting to see what Burham has to say about this? If I was him I would be asking myself, why am I a member of the shower of Poo!
There are far too many politicians and members of the so-called media for whom the following phrase applies:-
“Look, we’ve all got something to contribute to this discussion. And I think what you should contribute from now on is silence.”
(Arnold J Rimmer on Red Dwarf)
Craig
P.S. I might copy and paste this and save it somewhere. I’ve used it several times already and I suspect I will be regularly using it in the future.
It is appropriate
Richard, well said. To me, McFadden epitomises what is wrong with the current political establishment. Puny, pusillanimous and clueless politicians lacking any discernible talent or ability. Given what is now coming at us thanks to the US and Israel, I have no confidence that the Westminster political establishment are up to the task. We are truly screwed.
Much to agree with
My response to Len of Macteam:
“You were part of the scandalous Fraud perpetrated by Labour Together, to destroy the left wing of the Labour Party. How come you are still in government, lying to the country and wrecking people’s lives with your flawed and failed austerity economics?”
Labour’s backgroup chat reveals the extent to which they wholeheartedly endorse the Tory framing of ‘welfare’ or what was once legitimately championed as social security. Labour’s dominant right factions have long secretly accepted this Tory critique and they would in all earnestness like to cast off their historical legacy as champions of the economically marginalised such as the unemployed and disabled. Inconveniently for them a sizeable chunk of their MPs (albeit a minority of the PLP) were prepared to block some of the attempts to cut disability benefits. McFadden and co are deeply embarrassed that they have to concede such territory as of this time. It is their hope that they will eventually prevail. In the meantime they have gifted a huge ideological surrender to the Tory/Reform opposition.
Much to agree with
A rather blunt comment on Mr McFadden but it is true. I have never thought he was very bright. He is totally out of his depth when it comes to his portfolio and pretty much anything else. His views chime in with all those high earners – Jim O’Neil, David Willets, Michael Gove, Tony Blair – who go on about the country not being able to afford welfare or the state pension. They could of course pay more tax! Labour these days is just a right wing free-market outfit – out of depth, out of touch and hopefully out of office at the next election!
Education needs to be free up to degree level; the needs of the workforce required by all UK industry requires it. I suggest this is an adequate reason for the cost of the education to be met by the state. Students then just pay their living expenses; ie their bed and board. Foreign students used to be attracted by our english education, but it seems we are loosing that sales edge. That makes the UK poorer in the long run. Politicians and many others seem incapable of changing the policy back to what happened in earlier times.The words “courageous politician” seem never to exist nowadays.
Sorry just posted in the wrong place – should be in the UK Universities bit
It doesn’t help that following your critique “The worst attack on MMT, ever?” people like Emmanuel Maggiori are still publishing misleading articles on MMT, see:
“We need to talk about modern monetary theory“, Emmanuel Maggiori, 1 June 2026
Cap.x is a site that is impossible to take seriously. Its writers have almost universally fallen over the right edge of economic sanity.
Thank you for the link Ian.
Much to agree with.
I don’t know Pat McFadden or anything about him. I’m not a political party supporter of any description, but I think it’s unfair to condemn anyone for one Whatsapp message almost certainly taken out of context, because we don’t know how the remark originated, who he was referring to, what led up to it and everything else. God knows, if you went through my phone, you would find plenty of messages you could condemn me for without knowing any or all of the above.
This and several other recent items have made me think that Labour is corporately thick. They are anti-intelligence (small i) but all puffed up on and pro-Intelligence (capital I). Probably they have lost their understanding of the vzlue of small i intelligence because they don’t operate with a need to use it. They are so latched onto capital I Intelligence, they probably only ever use the word in that context because the other one doesn’t matter. Our democratic future really is under threat when we have such mediocre people occupying the senior offices of state. I’m not arguing that the Tories were any less of a threat in their own way. One just feels so much more depressingly let down as one’s pre-existing expectations of Labour prove so illusory.