I have been a little surprised to note the reactions to my Tweet thread on Nicola Sturgeon's new economic plan for Scotland post-independence. This is the version in The National:
The Herald had this:
That version appears to have been syndicated far and wide.
My point is simple. Independence does of course carry risk for Scotland. In that case, those proposing it have to mitigate that risk, not increase it. The Sturgeon plan just about maximises currency risk from the transition. A short time scale with a certain outcome would minimise it, and so reduce the fears people might have, and as importantly, that Scotland might really have. In that case, a short time scale must be adopted. Nothing else makes sense.
I will have more on this in The National tomorrow. You can subscribe for as little as £1 a year.
There is more on this in the discussion I had on Scotonomics on Monday night.
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The Scots must never forget the rampant racism and superiority complex inherent in the people they are dealing with. Namely the English. It does not matter if the Scots have gone along with it for personal gain. All that matters is that they remember that it has always been and always will be the case. Negotiating with the English on this would be like taking a tiger for a walk on a very short leash. I’m English and I wouldn’t trust us as far as I could fling us as the saying goes.
I mean – just look at Westminster now. If Sturgeon ‘detests’ the Tories, then she should negotiate on that basis. As for Labour, they can’t stand sharing power either because they’re party worshippers and not real politicians.
PSR, forgive me again but I think you are over-cooking your own problems with England here. If you believe Scotland is simply naive then frankly you do not understand Scotland. Think for a moment of Scotland’s long, long history. Do you really think Scots, of all people in the world, do not understand how it works here? Really?! For centuries Scots have been managing, or mismanaging the process, and Scots always have to make most of the adjustments (they are good at it- an approach to life they took round the world, with great success); but you really do require to stop painting Scots as innocents abroad; they know intuitively exactly how it works, better than anyone (if it didn’t work for what they want from it, they would stop doing it – the point is we are only now reaching the end point with Britain, an idea they think of as principally theirs); you just haven’t figured out why the Scots do it, what motivates them, or what are the limits – for them. Once you figure that out you may see that within Scotland and its social-political culture a different perspective prevails; the SNP are actually performing a complex ritual dance in a strictly-come-independence competition, that from their perspective, could still vote them out.
John,
I agree with your very well put position.
I would point out that many voters (in the UK) do not share the interest in economics, political economics or politics that readers of Richard’s blog do. In the last independent vote, I was truly staggered by the complete understanding of many on currency, on money, pensions, etc. Basic topics that easily become part of our boorish boo-haa political processes and subject to easy disinformation campaigns (similar to Brexit)…and thus promote fear politics.
It is an easy political trap. I would take the line of keeping sterling for the first few years and then consider a change thereafter. Having said that, with the Tories trying to take us and sterling to banana republic status maybe I should reconsider.
In short, there is no good economic or other reason why Scotland shouldn’t become independent – and recent events only make the case even stronger – but to get enough people to set aside their fears recognising that their perception (whether right or wrong) is their reality, I feel we need to approach it sensibly and as suggested by Richard. Personally, I have no doubt…but too many are swayed by the nonsense spewed out by those determined to maintain the union.
As a final observation, I don’t think it has to do with England or English people or their attitudes, etc. The madskulls in Downing Street currently aren’t representative of English people or their attitudes – or for that matter anyone else with the exception of right-wing lunatics. However, there is no getting away from the fact that too many people’s views are tainted by the by right-wing influenced media.
Thanks
I think you are being a little harsh, PSR. Our English cousins have largely succumbed to Post Imperial Stress Disorder (PISD), whose impact can be seen worldwide. This is a mental health problem. The over 65s in Scotland are also prone to this affliction. The outbreak in Russia is very serious indeed, although 1930’s Germany remains the worst pandemic of this kind ever.
Losing a war badly is the conventional treatment, but ‘losing’ Scotland will probably cure the English. We need to explain, in words of no more than two syllables, why we need to leave, and why the reasons they think we can’t do not interest us:
1 It’s not about the money
2 We are not afraid Russia, or space aliens, will invade
3 The Guardian’s colonialist attitude is indistinguishable from the Telegraph
4 We know you haven’t got over India
5 The queen can keep her £2bn hat, just get your f****** subs out of our loch.
6 We don’t hate England, we hate Britain. We know you can’t tell the difference.
7 World War II is over, the Russians beat the Germans. Look it up.
8 If ‘Less Britain’ is the successor state and keeps the security council seat, we don’t owe you a penny.
Have a great day!
Well said David I fully endorse your comment.
We need our own Scottish currency & Central Bank/Bank of Last Resort immediately on Independence. Keeping the GB£ for any length of time means we will not be independent as that status relies on us making our own economic & financial decisions. To retain the £ means that Westminster & the Treasury will still hold all the power we will need to thrive as an independent state whilst continuing to bleed Scotland dry as they have for 3 centuries. We are being set up to fail by WM & SNP. Charlotte Street Partners & Andrew Wilson are neoliberals & behave as though they run Scotland. They don’t!
BTW I was born English but am proud to be Scottish by choice.
I’m not Scottish, although I have lived and worked there during the 80s oil boom, so I’m not expressing an opinion either way on the question of Scottish Independence. I should say to Pilgrim Slight Return, though, that there was never any problem between any of the people I worked or lived with in Scotland which had anything at all to do with nationality. We might have spoken English with different accents, and supported different football and rugby teams, but that was about it.
On a question of economics I would wholeheartedly agree that an independent country should have its own currency. If Iceland which has a population of around 300k can do that then so can Scotland.
I know Richard thinks the EU will only require a vague agreement in principle to move towards the euro at some indeterminate time in the future but this is far from certain. In any case, the problem just as much about the fiscal rules that the EU might impose on an independent Scotland as the adoption of the euro itself. If the question is linked to the ability of an independent Scotland to apply for EU membership, supporters of independence need to be careful.
It would be reasonable to ask just where the SNP is planning to take an initially independent Scotland and about the terms they would accept for EU membership.
John & David
This post is about why it is good for Scotland to have its own currency.
I’ve based my responses on that. If the post becomes a means by which others can show me how I don’t apparently understand Scotland, then that just comes with the territory – so be it.
In mitigation though, my perspective is strictly English working class and I’ve spent a lot of time in Scotland over the years – trainspotting and on holiday – noting that just as in England there are the same problems – poor housing, poor infrastructure, the loss of community supporting jobs that have affected my family as a working person here in England too. All I can feel is a form of oppression, neglect – a form of economic homicide based on some very dodgy economics.
So – having seen the remnants of mass employment in Ravenscraig, Motherwell, inner city Glasgow as well as in Gateshead, Liverpool, Corby etc., please tell me John why and how the ‘clever Scot’s’ you speak of actually did well at looking after their country – hmmm?
I’m sorry John but I just don’t see it, which is why all I am doing is saying (hoping) that the Scots really take the opportunity to be different. Because their neighbours John (& David) – the English – are insane fascists. Do YOU understand? I should know mate – I live here and hear it everyday, at work, on the train, on the bus. England is a brutalised country – brutalised by hardship and taught to hate.
All the rest seems to be superfluous to me if I’m honest.
Although the English response to Scotland can be mixed – I remember talking to an England supporting hooligan going down to the last football home international at Wembley, who was going to hook up with Rangers fans so that they could both beat up the Catholic Celtic fans!! – I have encountered nothing but ignorance and rudeness over the years about Scotland in my neck of the woods in the East Midlands. As much as I’ve heard said about the Irish. Don’t tell me that I’ve not heard it – I’m not a liar! Funny enough, where I am the Welsh get off easy – seldom heard few harsh words about them.
And the Scots spoken of in the same BREXIT powered way (you DO remember BREXIT yeah?) as immigrants, the disabled, the unemployed – all a drag on England – holding us back, consuming OUR/English money (you remember GERS don’t you?). Nationalism is not just in Scotland at the moment I assure you.
As for you David – it is about the money. I happen to believe that you need a clean financial break from the English, so I’ve expressed that and I’d recommend it! The people you are dealing with would tread on their grandmothers’ necks to make a buck.
And you John, you come here pointing out accurately I might add, the shenanigans of the current crop of Westminster hooligans destroying England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales. Well, why should Scotland or anyone put up with it? This is the worst in the modern period it has ever been.
Finally ,who said it is against the law to worry about Scottish independence anyway? Who said that only the Scottish can worry about the Scottish? Or is that OK? I don’t know?
As I said, my perspective has always been the working class inside outsider. I live here and I’ve been watching them since I was 16 lying to us, hurting us and beating us down and it hurts and angers me now as much as did then, whether its happening to me, a Scotsman, Irishman etc.
So, I’ll say it again without apology – Scotland – you be bloody careful and get as much independence from England as you can. This country is poison I tell you.
“please tell me John why and how the ‘clever Scot’s’ you speak of actually did well at looking after their country – hmmm?”
I didn’t say they looked after their country; stil less that they looked after everyone. If that was true Scotland would not have the problems of deprivation that followed the form in which it created a commercial, industrialised country; which has left its mark on our post-industrial society. Scotland, however wrote the manual on commercial society, and sufficient Scots have always sought to make ‘the world their oyster’, one way or another; as the nature and influence of the Scottish diaspora demonstrates. These purposes and aspirations have shaped the very nature of the country. At the same time, everybody claims to speak for Scotland, but rarely does anyone in reality ever ‘speak’ for Scotland, or ‘the will of the people’; that is a species that has rarely been observed in Scotland.
Incidentally, I lived near London for ten years, for the little that is worth. Many people in Scotland and England have been excluded from opportunity, fully to participate in society, and benefit from what it offers; that is undeniable. It remains, like our complacent acceptance of deprivation in Scotland, as an obvious, unavoidable fact in our midst for generations, and which has never been fixed; a dreadful, unforgivable failure and indictment of Scotland’s priorites.
The fact remains that very large numbers of Scots, especially those who have been most influential in shaping, influencing and managing Scottish society (for better, and often worse), have found no special difficulties in rising to whatever heights of success they aspire to achieve, whether in Scotland, England or “Britain”; a fact that is really beyond dispute. I have not claimed, and do not claim that these priorities represent unvarnished social virtue; I do claim that if this outcome was not true, I have absolutely no dount that Scotland would already be long, long gone from the Union. For good or ill, like it or not, these, I submit are the facts.
Pilgrim Slight Return thank you for those comments with which I, as a Scot, fully endorse
Apologies typing error spotted after I hit send…it should have been …complete LACK OF understanding of many…