I admit that I do not spend a great deal of time looking at the musing of ex-Sun editor Kelvin MacKenzie on Twitter. This, however, was drawn to my attention:
The war of Brexit hate is growing. Apparently, they are now Nazis. I take personal offence at that. My grandfather - who was Irish - died as a result of his service in the Royal Navy in World War II. He was 45 when he died. His was a service of choice. How dare he offer such ungrounded abuse?
And maybe worse, this seems to me to incite racial tension. A stereotypical racist attack has been raised on the basis of a falsehood. I have reported the tweet to Twitter. I will be watching carefully to see what action they take.
And if there is any doubt that he is trying to incite racial tension, I add these as evidence:
These are disgusting, and again all too obviously intended to incite racial tension. As is this:
I am sickened by all these tweets, and no doubt they are far from the most offensive on Twitter.
What are we coming to?
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An ex-editor of The Sun – what a surprise!
Revolting and cretinous. It seems to me beyond doubt that anyone publishing such sentiments – and flasehoods – about a well-focussed on ethnic group, say Pakistani or Jewish or West Indian as examples, would be open to prosecution. Let us watch to see what our allegedly reformed metropolitan police actually do?
This is one of the big men of Fleet Street who, back along, loved Johnson’s mendacious anti-EU fables. And the commentariat wonder how we got into this mess!
You ain’t seen nothin’ yet! Just wait till the next Scottish Independence Referendum and see what he writes then!
I saw last time
If there was ever a time to bang your head against a brick wall to try and dislodge the reality around us, to clear the sickening slick of oily propaganda and manipulation in the MSM, the underhand and disgusting framing of the negotiations of the Brexit No Deal, the lies and even bolder lies, that moment is now. Pictures of naval gunboats in the gutter press (including the Guardian), ready to protect our fishing waters from the French and Spanish, mentions of rather crawling over glass than concede to the Germans on a Deal, bringing an acute hurt of Kristallnacht back to the German people, as if our press could get any lower. They can’t, they have been dredging the depths for decades, the overseas tax dodging press barons have been pulling the people of this country (and others) along the path toward totalitarianism for decades. The think tanks and dirty little ‘charities’ and ‘research’ institutes in and around Tufton Street, lodged and amplified (but never called out) by the BBC, ITV, Sky, newspapers and magazines, buzz with chatter and misinformation, actively lapped up by the media, each time nudging the ignorance of the populace to new levels of hate, bigotry and xenophobia. It has come to a stage where I don’t talk to anyone as I walk through to get my shopping in Bolsover, as I can merely look at someone to see their opinions written in flesh on their faces. The minute a conversation starts, I am reminded by some self righteous gammon that the Germans need to be taken down a peg or two, the Italians are duplicitous and the Frogs need a slap now and again. Remember ‘we won the war, we stood alone, we beat Hitler! We had Spitfires!’ It’s getting to the stage that I blank them now. It isn’t worth explaining the nuances of a Trade Deal, the give and take necessary to make it work for both sides, that each side has to relinquish an element of sovereignty to make it work. If I have to listen to another person going on about fish again, I swear I’ll explode. We sold off most of our large fishing quotas to foreigners, practically the only country to do so. We catch fish in EU waters. We sell most of our catch into the EU. It’s like talking to wooden puppets, there is no response until the puppet masters pull their strings and set the marionette on a well-practiced bout of arm waving and histrionics, a routine they have learned by wrote over years and years. Johnny Foreigner, taking our jobs, Muslims, rapists, cheese eating surrender monkeys. Yes, the EU is not perfect. The treatment of Greece was (is) a disgrace. But it could have been reformed. WE can’t do that outside, and we can’t complain that we can’t be part of the club if we don’t want to follow club rules.
Britain, or rather England, has become a hungrier, lonelier, ignorant, racist, cess-pit of hate, sucking on the bitter crop of punishment beatings by the few rich cock-suckers at the top. The worse they are treated, spurred on by a rampantly malignant and highly competent media propaganda, the more they want more misery. More pain, more lashes, hit us again, take it out on us! More austerity please, we need to suffer, we need to see the disabled die in hardship and pain. We need the poor and old to suffer with poor care and terrible pensions. Hit us some more. Tell us we don’t deserve compassion; we don’t deserve love and solidarity. Tell me as a carer looking after my disabled son or confused mother, that I can survive on £20 a week and a bag of Aldi crisps. Tell me as a pensioner I can survive on £120 a week, or as someone on Universal Credit I can pay my rent by selling my liver. More lashes, more pain, hit us again. We’ll soon be fighting squirrels to grab their acorns to grind up to make coffee, but hedge funds linked to many in the ERG and Tory ministers have placed up to 8 billion for a No-Deal Brexit. Why nothing in the media about this? There are riots in France in major cities but nothing in our press. Why are the pitchforks and torches not on the streets here? Spaffers great grandad was lynched by a mob whilst on route to his trial for treason. Ring any bells? Why hasn’t Tufton Street been blockaded or better still razed to the ground. These people are actively making our lives poorer, more difficult, and shorter. It is inevitable the Scots will leave the Union. Who could blame them? The Tory Party isn’t a conservative Party, it hasn’t been one for ages. It is a disaster capitalist gang. They destroy everything they touch and run off with the spoils. Spaffer is incapable of statesmanship at any level. He won’t even attempt it. As the World burns, he makes a speech at an International Climate Conference yesterday mocking ‘mung bean eating eco-freaks.’ He can’t help himself, he’s like the Cheshire Cat, the smirk will linger even when he’s gone. Why would any International negotiator trust him when his whole back history is that of lies? Engerland is now an International joke. That isn’t funny.
I agree with every word. Well said.
With respect to “a routine they have learned by wrote over years and years” – they, the Uk populace have been groomed, like small children, they have been and are being groomed to do what the polticial peadophiles want them to do. That is all the parties are: polticial peadophiles – they are not interested in mass participation, they prefer a small coterie making the decisions and then telling assorted UK peasants & serfs what to do – with a servile/abusive MSM (depending on the mood music) delivering the message.
I’m be very interested to hear from others that have views similar to mine and Gordon’s.
I’m one of those Mike. Gordon is right, especially about the role of our disgusting so-called ‘free press’ in brainwashing too many people in England, if not the rest of the UK. Comparison of these wretches to paedophiles grooming their victims is apt. And MacKenzie is a prime example. Presumably with his surname he is from Scotland. I wonder if he ever goes there? Presumably not, as he’d be lynched. Deservedly so. He would have happily worked for Goebbels, I’ve no doubt about that.
I glanced, briefly, at the front page of the Mail and saw the ludicrous lie about Merkel. I wonder where it got that from I thought? Now I know; just some ludicrous remark from one of the 25th raters in the cabinet.
I hope and believe most people will take the view that drivel like this says more about the tweeter than it does about the tweetees. What’s really weird is that he seems to think he’s being funny. What a sad individual he must be!
Not only is the Irish bad mouthed by the ignorant twat but so is Nicola Sturgeon which also includes the many SNP voters,
A FORMER editor of The Sun has been blasted on social media for branding Scotland “Jockestan” and the First Minister a “nauseating dwarf”.
Kelvin MacKenzie, who was also a columnist for The Sun until 2017 when he was let go for comparing a young mixed-race footballer to “a gorilla in the zoo”, also suggested that the SNP were the “Snidey Nasty Party”.
As you say the war has begun and how many in the cabinet got the same feelings but won’t say it.
As someone pointed out on Twitter, if the Second World War was fought to save 6 Million Jews then it failed. He is trying to conflate the sensible wish of the newly created Eire to avoid involvement in a war when trying to build an independent state after 800 years of occupation and exploitation, with the most monstrous war crime perpetrated by the Nazis. This shows an appalling lack of respect for the victims of the Holocaust, and a complete misrepresentation of the causes of the war.
Thank you
Your last line denotes something progress.
But the facts of the matter are that we are already there Richard. We have arrived. This is us now.
The likes of Mackenzie have awoken a large segment of the population who think like that. We are divided and fuel will be poured on those who believe this tripe.
However it is not just ‘The Sun Wot Done It’ – its’ the Establishment too, and those shadowy ISPs who should really take this stuff down.
Just to put this stuff into some historical perspective, the end of the transition period in a few weeks also marks the point at which we are chronologically nearer to the dawn of the 22nd century, than we are to the events of 1940. By then the beaches that Churchill once exhorted people to fight on may well be several feet under water.
I find these remarks about the French, deeply disturbing! My Grandfather served on the Maginot Line which ensured he would never reach Dunkirk. He fought for De Gaul in a couple of battles before being captured by the forces of Rommel! To insult the brave Frenchmen who died for everyone’s freedom is despicable! I look forward to the restart of the 700 year old alliance between my country and France, it will be a ‘slap in the face’ to racist MORONS like propogandist Mac Kenzie! I hope Twitter ban him!
You’ve called the government fascist many a time Richard.
I suppose that your behavior was fine, but Kelvin MacKenzie’s isn’t?
Our government is heading for fascism
Ireland wasn’t
The Irish weren’t
Let’s call a spade a spade.
This government are fascists.
No ifs, no buts.
It really is time to fully implement the recommendations of Lord Chief Justice Leveson following his full, judicial Inquiry , where he got the egregious nature of MacKenzies Sun.
the Aussie thug and Capo di tutti Capi – like a nazi thug wouldn’t accept his boorish noxious behaviour.
Claiming on oath
“I didn’t spend too much time pondering the ethics of how a story was gained, nor over-worry about whether to publish or not. If we believed the story to be true and we felt Sun readers should know the facts, we published it and left it to them to decide if we had done the right thing.”
He was even symbolically fired for a racist comment in one of its columns shortly after
But gobshites like him are the rabble rousers that brought in Thatcherism, NuLabourInc and a complete takeover of the free independent journalism – spreading his cohort throughout the whole industry – so all we have are DS mouthpieces.
You can be sure this is top down directive and he is setting the tone for the Hard BrexShit fall out by pushing the racism button so yet again the moronic media consumers kick beat them selves up and any minority group nearby rather the burn down the lying printing houses output and turn of the news propaganda.
For these who know not of Leveson Inquiry here’s a 500 page report on the whole bunch of thugs.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/270941/0780_ii.pdf
A great real story that is Dickensian but all true with real villains and their countless victims.
As for the foul mouthed git he will be remembered as Saville is – a rotten nasty obnoxious criminal creep.
Irish naval intelligence past information about German U-Boats activities in Irish territorial waters to Royal Navy during war, this information saved lives, MacKenzies is an disgusting little maggot.
The Irish also painted large numbers & letters on the west coast, so that overflying US/Canadian pilots could get their bearings. Many Irishmen, like Richard’s grandfather, joined UK forces to fight fascism, some having fought against Franco in the Spanish Civil War. Some deserted the Irish military to do so, were convicted, and only pardoned recently (within the last 10 years).
The ‘person’ at The Sun whom I really disliked was their ‘political’ editor Trevor Kavanagh I think his name was. People said that he was a nice man but all I saw was a Neo-liberal stoat, dripping evil ideas into their readers bloodstream on an almost daily basis. I lived in London in the mid to late 90’s and The Sun was very popular there and the South East – it’s use of estuary English in its front pages went down really well – innit?
Those tweets by MacKenzie are truly awful, and play on the general level of ignorance about our history. It’s no real surprise considering that the two “historians” who’ve had the most airtime on the BBC in the last 15 years are David Starkey and Neil Oliver, both now discredited for their xenophobic utterances. Starkey would have us believe that Henry VIII and Cromwell were good guys because they kept England strong, and the slaughter of thousands of Scots and Irish was “inevitable.”
How the blazes could the BBC allow such cretins onto our screens?
This type of language is a precursor for war. It becomes much more acceptable to go to war if the others are awful, have wronged you etc.
The best way to fight it is to not fund the institutions that push these views. The Sun, The Daily Mail and so on.
I’ve had the awkward situation in the past where I’ve been caring for someone who has asked me to buy the Mail. They can’t go, they need me to buy their shopping. At that time I did although we had a conversation about the views some Mail journalists promote. Now, in a very different Britain I would refuse. We really are not now that far from a really horrible politics. If Brexit is a disaster, then Scotland leaves, then Northern Ireland and Wales leave how bitter and angry will things get in England?
The prospect scares me enough that I moved from England to Scotland last year.
Good move
I also reported when I saw it on Twitter, needless to say I don’t read the rag.
During the painful 3 years I spent at Portsmouth Grammar school (an all boys’ school in those days) in the early 80s as a young French teacher (I happen to be French), those kinds of ‘jokes’ were part of a daily ration, so I could understand, little French woman that I was, what the great ‘English humour’ could do for the Entente Cordiale.
I resisted the learning a little too vocally for some (I had no sense of humour, being French) so they started to drink their tea & read the Torygraph as soon as I entered the staff room.
My German colleague had a much harder time, having notes dropped in her school bag telling her to ‘go home Nazi bitch’…and having much nastier lessons in ‘English humour’.
I used to find her in tears in the Ladies’, so we decided to complain together to the Head, who was mortified, but quite powerless really, as the bullying was so constant and insidious.
The governors were mostly all ex-Navy, and many of the staff too, or related to ex-Navy ppl…
I think that’s what one calls a baptism of fire?
It’s stayed with me till now, the bombast, Rule Britannia, nasty stupidity of ‘educated’ people, some with PhDs…
All the more painful as I was an Anglophile, but that was for the music, the literature, the words…another world…
Things have changed, but very, very slowly.
Every time any decent person sees or hears such lessons in ‘English humour’, please, complain, flag it up. It’s not nice.
Wow
So sorry….
Thanks Richard, but this personal anecdote was a useful ‘lesson’ which I turned to my advantage. Some aren’t so lucky and can get crushed if they don’t move away from such toxic milieux.
I learnt that no ‘People’ or country should be admired. That individuals matter more, that solidarity among them matters more, that weakness of character can hide in privileged places and minds, and that sometimes, they’re irrecuperable…that was the hardest to accept.
When I left the school, having been offered a promotion (to ‘calm me down’?) I remained very concerned that those teachers were going to be in charge of educating young minds for a few more years, and those young minds might never recover from their early contact with influential prejudice…
If it means anything Marie, even those of us who liked to chide the French or Germans in the past even in a light hearted way will think twice before doing so in the future, given how extremist these views are and where they have led us.
And BTW – I was never in that category.
I am an admirer the French and Germans because I also understand things like that the British basically refined the use of concentration camps in the Boer War I believe – a model that the Nazi borrowed it seems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Boer_War_concentration_camps
Superior? Nicer? Kinder? What – the English?!
Yeah right……………………
Hi Richard,
it is important to grasp the broader perspective of events. Many of these people inciting hatred are spouting last world war propaganda simply because they were in the last war and have reincarnated now to stand a chance of healing the hatred and violence that war engendered in their souls.
The world is ascending in consciousness, today notably, with the eclipse energies and the upcoming solstice. Because of the energies and massively increased Light hitting the planet as part of this process, all not in harmony with the new elevated ways of being will show their true colours, and they will not prevail. That which has been covert all along will now be exposed for all to see.
The essential part is is assessing and moderating ones own reaction to such outpourings, not to join in the negativity but to merely observe, not react in a like fashion, whether you feel justified or not. Rise above not sink to that level. But then I feel I do not need to tell you that.
Oh come on – almost everyone who fought the last war is now dead – or in their 90s.
Those spouting this were not in the last war
Exactly!
My father is 90 and so only 15 when the war ended. He has a boyish recollection of that time.
Older relatives, now long departed, would like to get together with others who served in the war as no one else could understand what they saw. Their reflections were that they had to do what they had to do, but they held, for the most part, no grudge against their foes; just a sadness of so many lives lost.
Likewise, my mother in law died last year at the fine age of 99. Though a staunch traditional Tory (we stayed off politics…) she was also a clear Remainer. Im pretty sure that my parents would have been the same. They did not share the petty xenophobia that is so typical of Brexiters. Having a French branch to the family also helped
I was quite shocked at a recent post of yours, about English ‘exceptionalism’, where you tarred all English people with the same brush and where your contemptuous attitude, looking down on ‘English’, really showed through – quite strange for someone who lives here and holds a English passport, albeit all the while proclaiming ‘Irishness’. It begs an obvious question.
Leaving aside MacKenzie’s low level crap, there are indeed issues with:
– how Ireland has used tax competition to get companies to establish there, regardless of the international effects on transnational corporate taxation (how can you ignore this?)
– Ireland trucking almost all of its imports and exports across this country, with issues of untaxed pollution, road wear, congestion
– and perhaps the ‘exceptionalism’ of the Common Travel Area, overwhelmingly one-sided in its usage, allowing Irish people free movement into the UK, to work and to claim. Logically, shouldn’t the same post-Brexit conditions apply to Irish people as to other EU citizens. (I know the CTA predates EU).
And I know you won’t publish this.
I did not tar all English people with exceptionalism. I would have thought that apparent. As a person living in England I did not tar myself with that brush.
But for the record, I do not hold an Engish passport. There is no such thing, yet.
It is an odd comment to make. Maybe your Freudian wish?
As for the rest, first read what I had to note David Cornwell saying this morning. Then:
1) I have been deeply critical of Ireland, including on RTE many times. That’s what a patriot can do
2) This is so crass it borders on stupid. Have you noticed the geography of where Ireland is?
3) Do you have any clue as to history? And are you aware it is reciprocal?
Of course I published this. It is very clear indication of why I holed much of what you say in low regard.
Flipping heck Linda – what’s your beef?
McKenzie and his ilk together with those who fund them are utterly loathsome. Perhaps more depressing is that there is a large market of people who want to buy and read this poison, whether it’s the Sun, Express, Mail or Telegraph. We cannot entirely blame the media unless you regard all people as sheep, tempting though that can be.
We have to face up to the fact that the U.K. and England in particular has a significant part of the population who are still xenophobic, if not full on racist. That may have been suppressed for decades but it was always there. Developments over the last 10 years led by the Tories and the poisonous drip feed from the media has legitimised behaviour that before was restricted to the corner of the pub or private dinner tables. Brexit finally unleashed the flood.
I grew up in Cumberland where sad to say, attitudes have not moved on a great deal. Brexitshire. Moved away to multi-racial South London (Brixton, Battersea) and though I now live out of London it’s still an area I regularly go back to. Whatever it’s problems, it’s way better there than it was but as whole the country needs to face up to continuing deep rooted prejudice. That needs tackling as well as the media
@Pilgrim Slight Return
Thank you for those kind words, and for the link.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not over-sensitive, as my friends know. I laugh at ‘French’ jokes, but only those that aren’t nasty. I don’t care for nasty jokes.
If a British friend makes fun of French quirks, I’ll laugh because I trust them not to mean offence, but to point out peculiarities from a different perspective, sometimes I haven’t realised how peculiar they are. They’ll laugh with me, kindly pointing out those quirks, not belittling them in any way. I’ll do the same for them, they trust me to give as much as I get 😉
Those people my German colleague and I worked with though, they weren’t our friends, never tried to know us, weren’t interested in our cultures, they just meant to hurt and bully. Little did they know….
Anyway, all countries have their bullies who can smell a newcomer and sharpen their teeth on them, like a pack of hounds.
All countries have shameful moments in their history that they should learn about because otherwise they’ll think they’re better, kinder, fairer, funnier, more something or other. They’re not.
The sooner we realise countries are made up of individuals, and that their cultures and history are shaped by how they interact, develop, react to events, not by some intrinsic quality, the better.
We’ll realise it all the better by staying as connected and as open-minded as we can be.
Well said
It is barely worth even bothering with MacKenzie and his odious, fat-headed, third-rate xenophobia, but the factual ignorance displayed like a badge of pride is breathtaking. I’m sure he would say he is only kidding, because he never takes responsibility for the real damage his toxic bile causes.
From the Financial Secrecy Index 2020, Ireland is 29th. Top is the Cayman Islands. a British overseas territory in the Caribbean, followed by several other UK territories – BVI (9th), Guernsey (11th) and Jersey (16th). The UK itself is 12th. Who is the biggest tax haven again? Ireland and the UK both do pretty well on secrecy, but rank so highly due to their share of the offshore avoidance activity, and the UK alone is five times Ireland. But even on that measure Cayman alone is more than Ireland. So Ireland’s tax avoidance economy is not small, but hardly “much bigger than the Caribbean”.
Tens of thousands of Irish people volunteered to serve in the British armed forces in the second world war, at great personal cost, at the time and later. The Irish state was neutral, like Sweden, Switzerland, Spain, and Portugal, and even the US until 1941. Even so, the UK never stood alone: the overseas territories such as India had no choice when the UK declared war, but the dominions such as Canada and Australian elected to declare war on Germany themselves. And thousands of people from occupied countries joined or fought alongside the British armed forces too, from Poland and Czechoslovakia and Norway and the Netherlands and Belgium and France and so on.
Unfortunately the Second World War did not prevent the loss of 6 million Jewish lives. The Allies failed if we fought to save the Jews, even if that sort of post-facto reasoning makes any sense. Sickening that he should attempt to weaponise the Holocaust against Ireland in that manner, particularly as the UK bears a heavy burden of blame for its genocidal policies during the famine in Ireland a century earlier. We can talk about more recent British war crimes and crimes against humanity if he wishes. In Kenya, or Iraq, for example.
France was invaded and defeated by Germany three times in 70 years from 1870 to 1940. Many tens of thousands died in the Franco-Prussian War and and the First World War. Remember Sedan and Verdun, the siege of Paris and the utter devastation of northeast France. Many fought and died in the Second World War, while the British escaped at Dunkirk and other French ports; others escaped to join the Allies. Many, particularly the civilians, found themselves in occupied territory, and many fought on bravely in the resistance, again at almost unimaginable personal risk.
As for reverse gears, I wonder if Mr McKenzie has heard of Leclerc’s Deuxième Division Blindée, fighting in the Falaise Pocket after D-Day, liberating Paris and Strasbourg, and then fighting in the Alsace and Bavaria, ending in a small place called Berchtesgaden. (Of course, he knows all about it from personal experience, having been born in 1946 – which means not only did he miss all of the war, but he also just missed national service. Although an armchair soldier himself, I understand his father was a prisoner of war in the Far East for most of the war, so he should understand from his family history that sometimes the only sensible alternative to pointless loss of life is to surrender, as we did in Singapore: perhaps the greatest British military disaster since the retreat from Kabul in 1842.)
This harping back to the Second World War is just tiresome, as if the UK has nothing positive to say for itself in the last 75 years. The UK was lucky, with a relatively strong military and industrial economy, access to good natural resources, and strong allies – not least the US and USSR – and our enemy made mistakes, many from their unhinged ideology. Angela Merkel is not a Nazi (the sideways reference to Kristallnacht is doubly offensive, given her personal history in East Germany), any more than Macron is Pétain. You’d think the UK has not been allies with France since, what, 1815. And with Germany since at the latest 1955, when Kelvin MacKenzie was in short trousers,
I wish him luck in finding a proper red-white-and-blue “no black in the union jack” “two world wars and one world cup” “no true Englishman” car to buy. Perhaps an Ineos Grenadier? Oh, maybe not.
Thanks
Appreciated
I perhaps overegged my pudding just a trifle by saying that France was invaded and lost three times, given the result of the two world wars. But in the first war it was a close run thing until the Germans were stopped at the Marne, about 40 miles from Paris. However you cut it, they fought bravely and suffered mightily all three times.
Agreed
Britain went to war in 1939 ostensibly to defend Poland. It was the philosopher and diplomat HJ Paton who cleverly drew the ‘Curzon Line’ as ‘la raison de guerre’ at Versailles in 1919, on which we later relied; having already failed Czechoslovakia. By 1939 we couldn’t defend Poland, but a large number of gallant Polish soldiers fought for Britain and to win back Poland; only for Britain to “win” the war, fail to free Poland and simultaneously turn a Nelson’s eye to the discovery of the Katyn mass execution of Polish officers in 1940, because it was carried out by our Russian allies.
The sordid, demeaning ‘comic book’ view of history continually being peddled in Britain as ‘fact’, really has to stop.
Richard you have misread/misunderstood my first sentence, the key point is the people in question were in the last war (and or previous wars) and have now re incarnated but still hold the same warmongering, hatred and prejudice. Many, many past life regressions by many practitioners will bear me out on this, if one cared to research it.
Sorry – but I do not accept that
At the time when the Europeans are united and do not want to disintegrate and now with the new US president wanting to work with Europe more than the UK, these xenophobes are heading for a self destruction and isolation by losing friends and causing an economic damage. From experience, I am going to swear that people whose intention is evil will not succeed in the end and it is a matter of time and their problem is that they are not conscious of this subtle, tricky and self sabotaging intention because they are driven by negative emotions and blind thinking. It is a pity that some people have not learned from experience nor from history.