I have already noted that I have major reservations about much of Rishi Sunaks coronavirus job retention scheme. As the day has gone on these have only grown. Right now I have seven questions that need answers:
1) What happens if an employer of laid off staff refuses to apply for them to be treated as furloughed? Does that mean they cannot get payment under this scheme?
2) What happens if the employer refuses to, or cannot, pay the 20% of pay not covered by the scheme? Does that mean the government will not pay their 80% part under this scheme?
3) What happens if the employer goes bust during the duration of this scheme? Does that mean those on the scheme then lose their benefits under it? Why should that happen if it does?
4) Who pays the employer's national insurance due on this pay? And if the employer, why? What if they say they can't afford it? Can the scheme not work in that case?
5) What happens to mandatory pension contributions whilst this arrangement is in force, and who pays the employer's part?
6) If an employee has lost their job since 1 March as a result of coronavirus why can't they just apply to HMRC direct for 80% of their old pay up to the ceiling you set? Wouldn't that be fairer? And, please note, given online PAYE failings HMRC do have all the information to confirm such claims.
7) People need answers to these questions now. When will you supply them?
NOTE ADDED 23.3.20
A great many questions have been asked about this scheme.
I understand people's concerns, but three matters arise.
First, nothing on this blog is personal advice.
Second, in every case I have had to offer same variation on the theme ‘wait and see' - we do not know the rules are as yet so no one knows the answers to questions raised, me included.
Third, I am sorry that I cannot keep providing variations in that same answer. I know people are worried - but I cannot answer questions on something unknown - so everyone has to wait for the rules and then seek their own advice, I am afraid, starting with your own employer.
Thanks for reading this post.
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Richard, I’m wondering how much quicker, easier and cheaper it might be to implement Universal Basic Income – I saw a tweet from Caroline Lucas calling for such (but did not read the ft article) – instead of these questions and exclusions and uncertainty everyone is being put under, would it resolve a whole host of problems in one go, reduce a massive amount of beaurocracy, and therefore time and effort, as well as encourage people to self-isolate, increasing the safety of us all? It just seems the quickest and easiest solution to so much – for actual people anyway, obviously there needs to be further measures for business and finance – that would stop the country crumbling around us. Caroline Lucas put a costing on it, and compared with the bank-bailout cost it’s a mere fraction.
Are you recovering Richard? I hope your health is improving, it is very inconvenient to have any kind of health problem just now – I’ve had a bout of sinusitis so I know some of the difficulties even for a minor problem!
Significantly better today – and out of quarantine
I hope to do a blog on UBI tomorrow
I am working with about 15 groups who represent all the major thinkers on this in the UK on a statement / explainer but might have to get in early because the demand clearly exists now and consensus takes so bloody long….
Really good to hear you are recovering & out of quarantine, and I look forward to a UBI blog, especially as you’ve shown reluctance for it up until now. (Agree with the troubles on finding consensus; other people eh? [rolls eyes])
Let’s see what the morning brings….
‪hopefully you could advise. My husband started a new Job on 24Feb. Missed pay cut off date. He is expecting his 1st pay on 31mar. Sadly his company laid-off him and many other staff on 19march. Has letter to say company will pay lay-off retainer and will bring him back when they can. Will he be eligible for the new retention scheme despite not being paid by company in Feb? Thanks.
The government statement says the contract of employment is what matters….so I would be hopeful in this case
Many thanks for your reply. We hope the company has compassion and foresight to use the scheme.
What are your thoughts…my staff are hourly paid, and have irregular hours. What are your thoughts on how they will calculate amount they will receive? There is nothing on any of the .gov websites as far as I can tell, and speeches only used the word “salary”. Lots of people don’t get a salary but are hourly paid?
I sincerely hope it will be the average of a number of month’s pay
You may be required to work that out
I’m one of the employees mentioned in point 6. I was paying council tax arrears and have lost 2 out of my 3 jobs. I’m looking at bankruptcy
I hope you survive this
All I can do is help bring pressure to bear…
Sorry…
Hi, we have had to put several employees onto short working hours due to Coronavirus. However I believe that a furlough employee is one that has no work? Would our employees working 2/3 days a week then be ineligible for the scheme, many questions to be answered (quickly) on this. Thanks
I am sincerely hoping we will get a credible answer to this, and it has been raised, but I do not know right now
Just a quick heads up, the government have released slightly more details on it a few hours ago;
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-to-employers-and-businesses-about-covid-19/covid-19-support-for-businesses
“submit information to HMRC about the employees that have been furloughed and their earnings through a new online portal (HMRC will set out further details on the information required)” – To me, submitting earnings sounds like it would be based on average gross pay, as opposed to your contracted annual salary.
Also;
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-to-employers-and-businesses-about-covid-19/covid-19-guidance-for-employees
“To qualify for this scheme, you should not undertake work for them while you are furloughed. This will allow your employer to claim a grant of up to 80% of your wage for all employment costs, up to a cap of £2,500 per month.” – So you cannot work for them period whilst in receipt of the 80%.
I also suspect that with it being %80, that other 20% would cover NI payments… Though that’s just my presumption, there’s nothing I can find on that.
Thanks, blog to follow
Richard.
Could you or your readers please help me?
I am an educator and earn my income in three ways.
1] Via an agency on a daily rate – which for the moment, to my great relief, is continuing to be paid.
2] As a private tutor on a self-employed basis. That income stream node-dived on Wednesday with the announcement of school closures and the scrapping of exams.
3] As an employed exam marker – income I was contracted to earn in the near future for the summer round of exams. Income which I will no longer be earning.
Without [1] continuing I would now have zero income. So I am luckier than some.
My questions.
a] Will I be eligible for any support for losing my self-employment income?
b] Will I be eligible for an 80% payment for the future exam marking I was contracted for but which no longer going ahead?
Many thanks.
Richard C.
See my blog this morning
HI Richard,
My question is how can any company pay the 20% & Employers NI, if it has NO Revenue?
That means 34% of payroll bill!!!
If this is the case then there is only one answer.
Rgs
It can’t…
I am hoping the government will say NI is covered and the 20% can be waived
If not its curtains…
Hi Richard,
What are your thoughts on paid leave accrual whilst staff are furloughed for three months – will this still be accruing and will the employer have to pay the full amount, or will this be covered in the 80% of ‘all employment costs’ the government are paying?
There are bigger issues to worry about
Hi Richard
Thanks for these comments
We really need clarity now over who pays employers NI and employers auto enrollment contribution
When do you think this will be sorted?
From my reading the employer does not have to top up the 80%
“Your employer could choose to fund the differences between this payment and your salary, but does not have to”.
Any other comments greatly appreciated
Cheers
John
I think you are right the 20%
I hope clarity will come soon….
What about workers who are here on Tier 5 visas who’s visas state clearly “no recourse to public funds”. Am I correct that they will not be eligible for this?
Cheers
No idea….
I assume the business is applying for the grant, not the tier 5 individual so as long as the business meets HMRC’s requirements and the tier 5 individual is able to legally work for that employer I see no issue with it
I completely agree on all the points you have raised and whilst the government understandably has not published all the details I have a number of issues that we need clarity on.
Rather than just repeat your points these are just real world extensions.
My business is a Hotel, Bar and Restaurant which is obviously now closed. Initial planning pre Friday’s announcement was based on an initial reduced working hours schedule that would be best described as Clean, Maintain and Improve. Whilst this would be very costly we would get some benefit from this and the business would be in a slightly better position to “bounce back”. Assessing the actual benefit is extremely difficult. Obviously we would foot the wage bill for this in its entirety but given we were closed we would have probably gone to 60-70% costs week 1 and then reassess from there with the likely assumption of redundancies to slowly reduce wages the further away a reopening appeared to be. If we are forced to furlough staff and we also have to pay 20% (plus your mentioned NI and Pension…. Say another 6-7%) we are essentially paying 26% of our usual wages for zero productivity. It is simply an insurance premium against reopening without staff when we have very little in the way of dates for such reopening. I do accept there are many factors including redundancy payments etc but these don’t disapeer if we use the JBS, they simply get deferred whilst incuring this cost. In some cases they actually increase as working terms tick into the next category of notice period. There is a greater good but it can only be served if a company survives and that as a director is my responsibilty.
There is a long term productivity issue here potentially as whilst I believe I have good staff how an earth do I manage the transition back to work and them being productive at the same level as previously if they have been at home receiving full wages for an extended period of time. This is not an attempt to suggest people are bone idle but experience we sometimes struggle after seasonal slowdowns to be able to gear people back up once the peak months return. I accept this on a normal ongoing basis but we are going to be dealing with a situation on a completely different scale.
Everyone is going to face this problem
Hi
I own a children’s nursery which will be staying open to care for the children of key workers. I will probably be operating at around 30% capacity so will need a relative percentage of staff. If I lay off staff through the job retention scheme, then according to the guide lines they cannot work while ‘furloughed’. However there is a good chance that next week or thereafter, some of my working staff may become ill or have to isolate themselves, in which case I would call upon the furloughed ones to replace them. The ill ones or isolated ones get sick pay at £94/ week while the furloughed ones get 80% of full pay. I can see a big mess where I need to rotate staff, furloughed then un furloughed or whatever the term is, then maybe back again. It won’t work.
Let’s see what happens….
Some clear heads are needed
And not just from the civil service: they will need to talk to those who see the problems you’re raising
Similar issue as raised above.
If we reduce staff hours (e.g so everybody only works 30% of their time, will their 70% unutilised hours qualify as farloughed work hours?). The alternative is to ask 30% of staff to come in, and 70% to stay at home. But why would anyone come in to work when they know they’ll get 80% of their salary just by sitting at home?
I run a nursery that needs to open just for key workers.
Many of our staff members have now heard in the news that they will be paid 80% of their salary for sitting at home so the vast majority of them have now stayed at home. The very few who showed up to work are asking why they should come to work if they can simply earn 80% for staying at home? So we are now struggling to find the staff who will stay to look after the children of key workers we are specifically staying open for because that the guidance says to qualify for the 80% salary payment, furloughed workers cannot work.
Any guidance on this would be helpful.
Sorry, I have none…
I submit my opinions as I can but no one is under an obligation to listen
But it is quite clear that you have the right as employer to decide who is furloughed
Will employees who have a second job already still be eligible if their main employer puts them on furlough contract? If you have been furloughed can you get extra work elsewhere (such as food delivery driver who are in high demand right now)?
As yet we simply do not know
Sorry…..
I have allowed for continuing incomes in my self employed scheme
Hi Richard
I’ve recently purchased a sole trader & placed it within a new limited company. We are a retail business. I was just wondering how the scheme will work as my Ltd company hasn’t yet ran a payroll?
Clearly I’ve taken the employees on under tupe & they had salaries paid under the old employer reference. Is it likely HMRC will recognise this as a Tupe transfer & essentially a current business albeit in a different format? As ultimately it’s not a new business in terms of employees & trading history.
It’s just a unique situation and I’ve no idea on how Hmrc schemes normally recognise this form of continued employment?
I have no idea as yet
The problems are emerging by the minute
Let’s hope they take good advice on this…
I’ve got underline health conditions (spleen removed). Currently working in transport. If I’ll ask my employer to furloughed me, will I be eligible to this be Government Retention Scheme? I don’t know what to do I should isolate myself, if I’ll catch this virus I’ll probably die.
Ask them and see what happens
I already did and been told I’m only eligible to get ssp as new government scheme only applies to retail, pub workers etc and those who lost their jobs due to covid 19
This is absurd….
Nobody outside Government and HMRC knows the detail of the scheme until it is published, but I think we can surmise or guess the answers to a few of the questions that you raise in your article.
1 If the employees are not declared as furloughed under the JRS normal employment rules would surely apply. The very brief details published suggest that the scheme is subject to normal employment law. However, I am struggling to see why any employer who is laying off staff would turn down the opportunity for them to be paid 80% of their normal salary (subject to £2,500 monthly limit) at no cost to the employer.
2 There does not appear to be any obligation on the employer to top up the salary back to its usual level; the government’s 80% contribution does not seem to be contingent on any ongoing payment from the employer.
3 Given that the purpose of the scheme seems essentially to “freeze” employment where businesses cannot carry on trading at the same level, one would guess that if the business fails because of other non-salary financial commitments the rights for employees to benefit from the JRS would terminate. But I guess that it is possible that if the scheme remained limited to three months there might be flexibility on this. I can’t imagine that the government would continue funding 80% of wages indefinitely for former employees of a failed business.
4 I can’t believe that there will be any employer’s NIC to pay on the 80% government contribution. It would be perverse in the extreme to penalise businesses for furloughing employers compared to laying them off.
5 Similarly with employer stakeholder pension contributions.
6 Fair question, but I guess the government will not want to pay 80% of salary to former employees that have no chance of getting their old job back. How would HMRC distinguish between those laid off because of Covid 19 related business issues, those made redundant because of “routine” business failure and those fired for gross misconduct, for example?
7 This is absolutely the key question. The detail of the scheme needs to be communicated PDQ; there will be a host of employees and former employees expecting employers to be able to give them good news (or less bad news) on Monday morning and at the moment there is not necessarily enough detail for employers to be able to respond confidently.
The government response seems to be an excellent one, but at the moment it is too vague to be certain.
Let’s hope…
But we are hoping right now
Richard
can a furloughed worker do any work or must they cease working entirely to be eligible?
We simply do not know yet
I hope some work is permitted
But lets see
Pressure is being brought to bear is the best I can say
Hi Richard,
I have a number of points to make which will most definitely require answers in the very near future, not only by myself as an employer, but will probably apply to many other employers.
It would seem to be fairer to furlough a worker, rather than laying them off, as the worker will receive more financial gain than if claiming unemployment benefit. However will i still have to have to pay employers NI and the auto enrolment pension contribution. If so this is an expense to the business that has no revenue being generated, Surely this will just put my business into further financial difficulty ? Also, If the worker is furloughed, i understand that they cant do any work for me ?, again, this means i have a worker, that i cant send to work, so how does this generate revenue. In this instance surely it is better for the business to just lay off the worker, or what is the point.
I can also see there being issues long term, when workers return, as they are going to expect their full salary re-instated, whilst the business rebuilds its work stream. I doubt workers will take into account that the business will still have other liabilities other than just there salaries, such as unpaid rents, HMRC liabilities, utility bills, etc.
In addition, i am not suggesting that all workers are lazy, as all of mine are not, but on returning to work, The mentality of people will be that they have sat at home for 80% of their wages doing nothing, and now expected to actually work for very little extra. In normal circumstances workers returning from fortnights holiday often struggle for a few days to get back to normal, what will they be like after 3 months at home ? Once they are back at work, and no longer furloughed with pay, will it be easy to start using worker misconduct should their work ethic now be different, now that the worker is back, or will it be easier to just lay them off now and avoid further problems later when the world returns to normal ?
Kind Regards
Roy
Roy
I am really sorry – but I simply do not know the answers to your questions as yet
I hope we get answers
But re the last point – I think you need to look at your own management style to address this
Richard
Richard,
Your remarks have brought out the real underlying nature of the problem, to which readers are readily responding; disparate, complex and demanding problems.
I think you bring the advantage of experience as a forensic accountant, over the general abstractions of economc theoreticians; and almost all economists are theoreticians. Your attempts to advise people in very difficult predicaments are commendable, if I may say so.
Thanks
I am discussing them with others now
“1) What happens if an employer of laid off staff refuses to apply for them to be treated as furloughed? Does that mean they cannot get payment under this scheme?”
This one in particular is troublesome. My other half was made redundant on 19/03 with immediate effect due to the financial impact of Coronavirus. She has an ongoing discrimination case against the company and yet the ball is in their court to apply for this scheme. Surely they will implement a system in which the employee can make their own claim using their NI number to avoid relying on the employers.
This is a tough one – I just hope they are forced to do this
But as yet I know nothing
Dear Richard,
Great points raised. I feel hopeful that my employer will classify me as a furloughed worker. However the 20% reduction will hit me as I’m already on a low wage, so I have a question and I would love your opinion.
If I took a second job would this affect my status as a furloughed worker with my existing employer and therefore scupper any chance of receiving the benefit. The second job would be for a major supermarket who are employing emergency staff for a 12-week fixed term.
Many thanks,
Austin
I am afraid to say I simply don’t know
I am waiting, like you for details
Sorry…
Hi Richard,
What would be the situation for an owner & director of a limited company, who is also themselves on the payroll, and is paid a nominal salary each month through PAYE. Would they be able to furlough themselves, along with other staff also being furloughed, and in effect have the government paying 80% of their nominal salary. Does this government scheme apply to anybody that is paid through PAYE, or are there likely to be exceptions for people who are directors of the company?
Thanks,
Denis
Nothing as yet says directors are excluded.
On the other hand it is hard to see how directors can do nothing – the payroll has to be run for a start
I have taken voluntary unpaid leave as I live with a frail very elderly family member. To protect them as my employer would not adapt my role to work from home. Am i covered under the wage retention scheme or anything else?
Your employer has to agree and apply – ask them
Hi Richard,
Where do I you think I stand as a company director who is on payroll, and also a shareholder taking dividends from a small company. Would I be entitled to 80% of my basic salary paid through payroll? I’m
Also registered for self assessment to pay tax on dividends.
We will inevitably have to furlough some employees to see us all through this. They absolutely will be able to return to work when this is through. It seems ludicrous that furloughed employees might not have a job to return to if employers go under through lack of support because of being self employed.
Many thanks.
This can only relate to payroll
Hello,
Thanks for your help at this uncertain time .
Any idea how it will work for commission based workers who are furloughed ? We are dependent on my husbands commission earnings which are around £1000 more than his basic salary a month , if furloughed will the 80% just go off basic salary or will it take monthly earnings into account would you think?
Thank you
It is likely to be based on average earnings
Hi Richard,
Very interesting read thank you. Also, I wish you a speedy recovery and the very best of health.
I have been employed with the same company through an Agency since August, but on 2nd March of this year I started a full time contract and became a direct employee of the company.
We are a contractor for 75%+ of all NHS bodies and plentiful councils up and down the country, however as we are in the IT industry we aren’t on the top of their priorities for very valid reasons. Therefore my workflow is now dead and I want to suggest being furloughed. We have had to lay off some agency staff already. I currently live with parents who are 70+ years old so my concern is being in an environment were drivers and equipment have been in hospitals where Coronavirus might be present and me bringing the infection home. We visit atleast 5 different hospitals a day so the chances are quite high.
If the government has stipulated 1st March for the date of the retention scheme, would I of missed the date to be eligible for the scheme?
I know my employer will definitely want to keep me on, so long as they don’t go bust. But I think the employment retention scheme will be the ultimate decider whether I am kept on or not. I am yet to suggest working from home as luckily I could have the capacity to do that, I work in the office. But as a backup I wanted to try understand the furlough pay better.
I understand we have never experienced a crisis like this but I appreciate your patience and am grateful for any insight which could enlighten my situation.
Best wishes
The scheme is backdated to 1 March: so far nothing I have seen would preclude you
Is the 80% payment subject to tax and NI
Yes
Hey
I started a new job on the beginning of March, I have been paid twice on PAYE weekly I’m hearing in some places that you have to have started before 28th feb to be eligible for the 80% is that true?
Nothing I have read suggests that
As I read the statement below it appears that ICAEW believe you need to have been. In employment as at 28/2.
‘The scheme, open to any employer in the country, will cover the cost of wages backdated to 1 March 2020 and will be open before the end of April. It will continue for at least three months, and can include workers who were in employment on 28 February.’
https://www.icaew.com/insights/coronavirus/uk-practical-business-advice-covid-19
If so that’s very unfair when people were taken on in March before this erupted
It should simply be before the announcement date
Hi
My. Husband has a small business, him and 2 staff. He is in the at risk group who they are now telling to self isolate for 3 months. He has severe uncontrollable asthma, which they find hard enough to control at the best of times. I am just wondering will he be able to access this scheme? If he selfs isolates the business will have to close due to him being the only person experienced to do his work, the other two members of staff are labourers. He is on payroll and a director of the company, will they all get paid?
Thanks
My hope is that they would qualify
Application has to be made: I would encourage you to look at doing so, but we will learn more about directors soon, I hope
Hi Richard
My daughter was working in a restaurant on a zero hours contract. She has been told her job will be available for her when the restaurant re opens. Is she eligible for the employment retention scheme if her employer classes her as a furloughed employee ?
Many thanks and best wishes
If they apply for her it sounds very likely that she should
Hi, I work in a preschool and so am classed as a key worker. I have a 10 year old child. My husband is also a keyworker, working on the food industry. We have decided that my son and I will follow the government’s advice and stay at home and keep my son safe. The preschool I work at is opening, we have 12 members of staff but only 7 children now a day. They haven’t told us we can’t work but have told us if we don’t we will not get paid. Does the 80% pay include me? If the preschool has to shut because there isn’t enough staff or a confirmed case I will be paid in full. Many thanks for your help.
Only if your employer agrees
My son has had to self isolate due to him being vulnerable. His employer has said they advise him to stand down but they will leave it up to him. Will he be entitled to 80% of his wages.
Only if the employer agrees
What are your views about sole traders that have employees.
Will their employees qualify to be Furlough or is it Ltd companies only?
Thanks
I can see no reason why they will not qualify
Hi,
If we intend to change our contracts to Furloughed workers and request 80% of the grant, but intend to top up the 20% of pay ensuring staff receive a full salary, can we ask our staff to carry out 20% work. Present guidance states staff are not to work under the a furlough contract.
I think you are wrong
The present Government advice is ‘if your employer intends to access the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme, they will discuss with you becoming classified as a furloughed worker. This would mean that you are kept on your employer’s payroll, rather than being laid off. To qualify for this scheme, you should not undertake work for them while you are furloughed. ‘ Your response states I am wrong or the Government are incorrect in their advice. Are you confident in your reply that I can ask staff to work as we are paying 20% or we cannot ask them to work regardless of paying them the top up.
Thanks..
As I read it they can do nothing
More info to come though
My wife works in a small furniture retail company in Scotland, there is little to no information on whether her company would qualify if they closed down due to coronavirus threat.
The owner has been told that only those businesses in the hospitality sector can apply at the moment.
Can you throw any light on who qualifies?
For staff all sectors qualify
That company gets little help right now, but the staff can of the employer cooperates
Whether or not employers have to pay the 20% is crucial to this scheme.
If they do, it will put many of them in the awful position of having to prioritise who will get the benefit with a huge cliff-edge for those employees that don’t make the cut.
As an employer myself who is desperate to do the right thing by my staff this is a nightmare scenario. I have had to shutter my business and I cannot afford to pay everyone 20%. How on earth do I prioritise them fairly? Should I take out a loan to subsidise their benefit?
And yet John McDonnell is asking to make it compulsory for us to pay. He does not have a clue!
Hi I have been working through an agency for the past 13 weeks I got a call that were off work until this is over with are we entitled to the same
Not clear: ask them, but I suspect that as an agency worker this will not be the case: it all depends on the contract
Hello,
I am potentially looking at furlough for 4 employees, however we are a dog walking business. As I am sure you can imagine, margins are tight I dont have any excess funds to initially pay the 80%. Do we know the proposed turnaround for reimbursement.
It is going to be slow – end of April at earliest
Hi.
I have been put on redundancy consultation today. I have asked my company about the Job Retention Scheme to avoid redundancy but they are not willing to do this. Is there any help for someone in my situation?
Thanks
Emma
It would seem that if they refuse there is nothing you can do about this
Hi,
Has any more information been shared on whether people placed on Furlough are able to take on a second job?
My employer advised that I cannot take on secondary employment that takes place at the same time as the hours that I normally work but could work hours around. I can’t see any information available online on this.
Thanks
I can’t see why you cannot do a second job in non-working time from first employer but the rules may say otherwise
Hello,
my boss has just gathered us round to say that it is very likely we will have to close on Friday (whether we are forced to or not).
he has said that the process for the government to sort out the 80% pay for us could be a long one, which i am not surprised about given the situation. he has said that he will only be paying us what he feels we can live on without bills. even if we got the 80% wage on Friday, he also said he will not pay us all of this as he ‘needs cash to keep the business afloat’. this will apparently be reimbursed to us when (if!) we return back to work. is this even allowed if the government are helping?
also, an update whether we can work a second job to top our salary up would be very helpful. especially if i do not get the full 80%!
thanks.
The answer is I would take anything you can get now if he is saying when he gets reimbursement he will pay you
It’s far from ideal
And it may not be legal
But if you can get into this scheme then do
The second job situation is not clear
Hi Richard,
He said that he would not pay us until we return back to work. when he ‘can afford’ to.
I have also heard that gov may pay direct to the employees?
Thanks.
I have not heard anything about direct payment to employees
My parents have been employed as Clearers on Zero Hours contracts at a large Exhibition Centre (via a Cleaning Contractor) for the last 10 years. They work 30 hours per week (6 hours per day, 5 days per week) . The Exhibition Centre has closed as of today and there is currently no work available. Do they have to ask the Cleaning Contractor if they will treat them as furloughed? What happens if they refuse? Thanks in advance.
They have to ask the contractor
As far as I know if they refuse there is nothing they can do about it
That is horribly unfair
Thanks, I will advise them to contact the contractor. Jo
Just one brief observation ….. maybe I’ve missed something ?
The precise wording on gov.co.uk last week was that “HMRC will reimburse 80% of furloughed workers wages costs, up to a cap of £2,500 per month” where I am reading reports online now of “up to 80%” …. ??
Clearly the variation between these 2 contributions could be huge and would be hugely influencial in derterming just how many emplyees would could potentially afford to furlough – are these statement of “up to 80%” incorrect or not ?
Other than this, many thanks for the clear opinions provided to date.
80% is unchanged as far as I know
I have an employee who is coming to the end of his initial 3 month probation period. We had already come to the conclusion that we weren’t going to take him on permanently at the end of the period, essentially because we didn’t have enough business before the coronavirus outbreak but also because he wasn’t good enough to justify the salary he was on.
We wouldn’t want to be paying for him to return to the business after things go back to ‘normal’ – but at the same time, he’s a decent guy and it seems incredibly harsh to make him redundant right now with no hope of getting another job over the next few months. So my question is: is there any reason NOT to put him on furlough and claim the 80%? I.e. would we be likely to be under any obligation to re-employ him for a period after the govt scheme ends, or would we be liable for any costs (the other 20%, NI, etc?) in the meantime? Or would it limit our ability to potentially put other (more valued) employees on furlough if we need to further down the line?
No idea – read the rules when they come out
It sounds as though you may be playing a game and there may be anti-abuse rules in there
I am involved with running a children’s nursery and we are remaining open for special needs children only. Clearly we are overstaffed and last week were contemplating either laying staff off without pay subject to agreement or reducing each individuals hours and thus pay.
On the surface the Chancellors scheme looks as if it would save us from having to take either of these actions. However is it the case that if staff – the business that is – receive 80% of their salary then they cannot work on the days they are being paid this 80%?
On a separate point with furloughed workers can half the staff work one week and the other half the next and still have the benefit of the 80%?
Staff who are furloughed definitely cannot work
I suspect switching on and off will be unacceptable – but let’s see….
Have you seen anywhere how the 80% will be calculated for those staff who do irregular hours
It seems as if it will be based on averages – but we do not know as yet how that will work – and I have just checked the latest updates
Hello Richard
Our work has been closed and although we will get 80% from the furlough the rest is very unlikely and I will be without my additional overtime and add ons that helps pay the bills. I am due to start a 2nd job on a temp part time basis at a supermarket while my business is closed. Will this void my furlough ? Thanks Joe s
Nothing has been said on this as yet
But I can’t see why it should
Having two jobs is allowed in general
Hi Richard,
I hope all is well -as it can be.
I was recently made redundant due to Covid-19, however, this was before the Scheme was brought in.
My company is refusing to put me into the scheme, which has, of course, left a bitter taste in my mouth.
Only being with the company for 8 months I’m not sure where I stand or if they are even allowed to make such a selfish decision.
It really puts it into perspective what sort of companies you work for that have no consideration for their staff and families.
Best,
Liam
I am sorry to say that if they refuse that appears to remove any chance of you being in the scheme – but wait for the fine print just in case
if a person was sacked due to the coronavirus before the chancellors statement and not being re-employed will they get any payment under the scheme.Rain newton smith spoke about this on fridays bbc news 20th mar at about 5.50pm
No one knows as yet
Sorry….
Hi,
I have a number of employees that are permanent but are part time so do not earn enough to pay tax.Will they be entitled to be furloughed and receive 80% of their regular pay.They are an important part of the business and we want to retain them when we get back up and running.
I suspect so as long as they were on the payroll