There is an article in the FT this morning that asks how workplaces can foster creative people. The unsurprising answer is ‘get rid of open plan offices'. Closely followed by ‘stop holding useless meetings' and ‘brain storming does not work'. Unless, that is, you want groupthink endorsement of mediocre ideas.
I agree.
The whole piece reminds me of the most paradoxical adverts I read. They ask for applicants from ‘original and innovative thinkers' who are ‘team players'. I am not saying there is no overlap between the Venn diagrams for these two groups. I am saying they are small.
This problem afflicts most sectors. The NGO and campaigning sectors are certainly burdened by it. Process, team play and structure seems to count for much more than the creation of solutions to problems. And I know business is cursed by it. And many aspects of university life too, come to that. And I have always railed against it.
A few years ago I was given an award for effective campaigning. In the minute or two I was given to note my thanks I gave praise to the Jospeh Rowntree Charitable Trust. They had the courage to fund me for five years to, as I put it, look out of the window. Which is what I did, and still do, quite often. Because inspiration comes from watching the world and wondering why it behaves as it does.
Few funders have that courage. Too many want defined projects with defined outcomes. This, bizarrely, is even true of academic research projects, where knowing the answer before you start is a very obvious advantage, I have discovered. No wonder we have remarkably little real innovation.
I now have a track record of innovation, and I hope over the next few days try write about my latest work that might justify this description being attached to it. But all the ideas I have helped create have happened by chance and have relied on my ability to go away and sit quietly to turn an inkling of a notion into something that looks viable.
That sitting quietly - and invariably on my own - is the essential bit. I've always worked co-operatively. And usually at some distance from those I am working with.
It does not make me anti-social. Or a bad team player, per se. I am utterly dependent on colleagues in almost all I do. But it does mean I innovate. And it's time that the world realised that space, time and the chance to just muse are an essential part of this. And sometimes it will look like I am walking the dog. But actually I'm solving a problem. And that needs funding, investment and support as much as the next team meeting.
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What you seem to do is avoid the supposed ‘wisdom of the crowd’.
A highly commendable position.
Very wise, considering the collective blindness about economic orthodoxy and even (dare I mention it) BREXIT.
I am introvert (who has learned to hide this in an extrovert world)
I don’t like crowds
Wise ones or not
Ah, “the wisdom of the crowd” (or as I termed it “the Here-we-Go, Here-we-Go, Here-we-Go” mindset), where the CEO’s (usually an autocratic male) statements and proposals go unchallenged as the other ranks seek, with various levels of enthusiasm/desperation, to appear to be team-players. When I worked in corporate turnarounds, I used to sit in on management and staff meetings and knew that getting the business back on track would be a lot harder when “Here-we-Go, Here-we-Go, Here-we-Go” attitudes existed. It simply meant that original, objective, analytical thought couldn’t flourish and, if anyone was doing it, he/she would be unlikely to stick around for long.
Very true
We have
‘the supposed ‘wisdom of the crowd’ ’ and ‘Ah, “the wisdom of the crowd” ’
what we don’t seem to have is an understanding of what that phrase means, if I am correct in assuming they are referencing the ideas popularised in the book of the same name. Contrary to what is suggested in the comments the wisdom of of the crowd is not analogous with groupthink – defined by the Merriam-Webster dictionary as “a pattern of thought characterized by self-deception, forced manufacture of consent, and conformity to group values and ethics”. The wisdom of crowds however, to be useful ( not every crowd is wise and this is acknowledged and discussed both in the book and elsewhere ) requires a number of conditions to be met. One of the key conditions is that of independence, that the opinions of the members of the crowd are not determined by those around them (this seems to me to be the opposite of groupthink). Independence seems like a good description of what RM has written about here.
I do not say this to be pedantic, nor to criticise the commenters (whose wisdom, along with the rest of the crowd on this blog I find interesting and informative) I do not say it because I am particularly connected or have an agenda associated with the wisdom of crowds – though I find the idea of sortition quite compelling and, in view of the current farce of non government taking place at westminster, think it could be part of the solution (along with PR, GND, MMT &c.) to getting things to where they need to be, it also has the benefit of helping to reassert the idea of citizenship and help push aside the ideals of consumership and debtorship that have come to represent the ideal of belonging in the neo-liberal age. I say it because language matters.
More than once in this blog I have seen discussion of the various problems of communicating about MMT, how some of these are to do with the language – the use of theory when it is in fact a description of what happens now, the idea that it is something that needs to be adopted when it in fact is a description of what happens now, the question of whether it will work when it in fact is a description of what happens now… (i know i have oversimplified it but you get the drift) then there is the fact that Modern Monetary Theory and Magic Money Tree share the same TLA, a fortuitous coincidence (or work of a good speechwriter) should you wish to diminish the import and seriousness of the former by connecting it to the silliness of the latter.
Then there is the GND, just a couple of weeks ago this blog covered and commented on a Washington Post editorial and, as the title to the blog post said, got everything wrong. As i read the quoted sections from the editorial my overwhelming sense was that of a muddying of the waters. By both missreprenting what the GND is and by pushing the idea of carbon pricing and having a large banner under the title of the editorial saying Our Green New Deal the WaPo is doing what the MSM does best, diminishing the power of ideas it doesn’t like, in this case by portraying it essentially as something it is not. To a committed reader the facts are there and can be understood, to scan the pieces could leave you with a number of ideas, most of which are not correct representations of the green new deal as put forward by ACO. In time GND could lose its meaning and become like brexit means brexit – all things to all people. If that happens it runs a serious risk of losing its power and either disappearing or being watered down to the extent that people who think they are voting for a progressive earth saving policy end up voting for oil industry subsidies and tax on renewables. (I am saddened that that last sentence doesn’t look nearly as ridiculous as I wanted it to).
It is important to be aware of how mass media is able to change the meaning of language, I am not suggesting that this need be an overt conspiracy of any sort, simply that when you have the loudest voice what you say is heard. We are as humans innately ‘lazy’ and subject to all sorts of cognitive biases as a result we are easy guide, especially if tired or busy (Don’t take my word for it billions are spent on advertising and marketing because it works) It is important for us to be aware so that we can remain clear and definite as to what MMT and the GND (in the examples I have given) are and do what we can to keep the meaning alive, rather than the TLA.
I am not sure why the references to the wisdom of crowds that I mention at the start got me quite so riled up, especially as despite the error I knew what they were getting at and agreed with their comments. It is perhaps because I read this blog, along with other non MSM sources, because it educates me and especially because it give me hope and helps bring up ideas that show a way forward toward a better future, unlike the MSM it is an independent voice that is supported and enriched by a mostly lively, intelligent and informed readership (if judged by the bulk of comments). It is not an example of groupthink (however much the occasional comment may suggest otherwise) but a rather splendid example of the wisdom of crowds
Thank you
I really appreciate that
I’d ask the assembled company to take a bow
Email Address Supplied says:
“What you seem to do is avoid the supposed ‘wisdom of the crowd’…..”
I’ve always suspected that the ‘wisdom of the crowd’ is a euphemism for collective stupidity.
I mentioned the ‘wisdom of the crowd’ phenomenon in relation in the context of that over rated but poor performing idea that we see in financial and other markets whereby such-supposed wisdom ensures that markets value assets correctly.
Patently this is not the case because what we actually see is herd type behaviour instead as supposedly objective groups jump on the latest bandwagon in the hope of returns.
By looking out the window what can avoid being sucked into this too. A few investors did actually do this and profited enormously from the 2008 crash apparently.
Email Address Supplied says:
“…… whereby such-supposed wisdom ensures that markets value assets correctly….” Hmmmm…. you do well to be sceptical of this nonsense. When it comes down to it there is no absolute value in cash terms for anything. The markets play a closed-loop game betting on the current predominant group-think.
“A few investors […] profited enormously from the 2008 crash apparently.”
It always pays to bet against the herd, but only when the tide is about to turn. Do so at other times and you lose you shirt. Being right has more to do with understanding group psychology than understanding ‘fundamental value’. It’s a game; a high stakes game which causes a lot of collateral damage from time to time. And of course, the game is almost entirely zero sum. 🙁
I couldn’t agree more – many organisations are driven solely by too many defined outcomes so that opportunities and time for innovative thinking is lost.
“Too many want defined projects with defined outcomes” surely applies to our educational system where the pursuit of specific learning goals is to the exclusion of practically all else. Go on a course, and often the first thing you are asked is “what are your learning goals for this course” …. and to be stimulated to think differently isn’t SMART enough for the organisers!
Some of my best thinking has occurred whilst running (or latterly) walking the dogs!
I often spend time by the river in Ely during the day
And then have a coffee and write 2,000 words in 90 minutes
A very good rate of return….
As I recall, when Isaac Newton was a youngster, he was thought to be stupid and slow because he spent so long quietly thinking!
I relative of mine was described as retarded for the same reason when you could still use such terms
He was anything but
Andrew Dickie says:
“As I recall, when Isaac Newton was a youngster,….”
Erm ….just how old ARE you, Andrew Dickie ?? 🙂
Not THAT old! I know….
Dearie me, Andrew (Andy) Crow,
There IS such a thing as historic record, you know! FYI, I turned 74 in February – an “old git”, but not that old: I’m no “Emilia Marty” from Janacek’s wonderful opera “The Makropoulos Case”.
Such relief to be retired and now out of the workplace where open plan is forced upon all of us in spite of different personality types/learning preferences.
Every day I arrived home with no energy to do more than eat and go to bed. All day I had been subjected to chatter, fluorescent lighting, photocopier noises and constrained by a timetable ( I never even got to eat lunch when I really needed to – timetabled )
I viewed a new primary school a few years back with a mixture of emotions and was heartily glad I am not a small child in a ‘corridor’ for a classroom where everyone passing by sees/hears/disturbs what is happening. You’d think with ever more psychologists on the payroll that developments in buildings would be more nuanced not less. I don’t blame architects, they work to a lists of wants by the one who commissions.
I do my best thinking while walking along ( as did Wordsworth ) and keep pen and notebook in my pocket to jot ideas. I gather us introverts would be in the majority in Asia. It owuld not be a constant pressure to conform to others’ expectations of ‘norm’. For now I will have to determine to ‘be true to myself’ in the extrovert West as I love my home country too much to consider emigrating.
An extrovert would never understand what you have just written
But we have too understand them
It is one of the great divides in society
Sorry to burst your bubble but you would be unlikely to find Asia a paradise as an introvert. I say this as a card carrying introvert who spent 47 years in Hong Kong. Whilst being an introvert there is certainly more accepted than in the USA and to a lesser extent the UK you would find yourself having to deal with being in the midst of many of the most densely populated places on the planet. Were you to grow up there you would find, unless again you were wealthy, large class sizes and an education system that you would be unlikely to find conducive to space to think. This though would not be an issue for you, nor would the fact that ‘American style’ business is everywhere and open plan offices are the norm (though thankfully there is less of a requirement to chat about last nights TV) . There is also a strong societal pressure to conform and whilst this does not mean conforming to an extrovert way of being it is certainly a source of stress. As a retired foreigner ( I make the assumption that you are white british ) without (I am assuming again) local language skills you would be left alone by many of the locals, but there would still be enough anglophones deeply immersed in extrovert culture to keep you tired and in need of quiet time. In short I have yet to find any true home for Introverts and I suspect there is not one, only places where the dominant culture is less extrovert and the population is allowed to display its normal distribution more naturally. The best thing an introvert can do is know themselves and do what it takes to thrive, and if you should see a young introvert struggling, some gentle pointing them in the right direction wouldn’t be a bad thing to do.
The last point is especially true
I do it
The funding bodies across the range of academic study are now driven, usually by ill-thought out KPI’s, to give preference to “applied” research. They just don’t seem to grasp that “pure” research is the origin of the ideas that drive applied research.
Without those “random” ideas, no one can say “now that’s interesting, I wonder what will happen if we do X with it”.
Absolutely, Newton, Darwin, Einstein, Freud et al did not sit in a lecture hall with some managerial smart-alecs scribyling on a flip chart pretending they are extracting something creative from a “training” course. Managerial dominance and the short term profit motive suppresses original thought and ideas. “Staff meetings” too means anyone suggesting anything slightly out of line with the current “Vision” statement nonsense is classified as a “trouble maker” to be watched and restrained.
I recognised myself in that article so won’t disagree with a word of it. However, reflect on the way we select our MPs. We have a contest in which extrovert, shouty types compete against each other. There are usually half a dozen competing for each job. We want charismatic leaders. The whole system is guaranteed to deter the real thinkers. Clement Attlee would not get elected in our modern world. Random selection of MPs from the electoral register would be a better method. It could hardly be worse.
I agree
We have extrovert politics
And it is undefifying
A thread for weirdos..
When did you have your charm by pass?
Simon says:
“A thread for weirdos..”
That rather proves the thrust of the whole thread I think in one phrase which is not even a sentence.
I remember as a Wolf Cub (not for long because I hated it) playing ‘Simon Says…..’
Until the charmless Simon posted, I was thinking how nice and peaceful it was around here – such a refreshing change…escape, from Br….
I was struck, Richard, by the proportion of us (weirdo’s) on here enjoying our retirement. There are experiences shared here which ring loud bells…and, never having had the benefit of a ‘wise finance director’, I was never referred anywhere and had never heard of INTP. Forty years too late I just looked it up. OMG, as my children would have it!
Alan
I do not take Myers Briggs as gospel. But it’s a useful model. And a good guide.
I have done several tests. I have found myself less introvert over time. I am not sure why. NTJ has never changed much. But amongst other things finding I was in a Myers Briggs group with less than 3% of the population in it helped me simply understand how I viewed the world was not wrong, but just different.
I love the INTJ big system perspective. But I have to understand a lot of people will just not get it.
And as a very J friend of mine puts it, understanding that Ps do not really understand what is wrong with being late does not stop them being bloody annoying (funny in his case, because he is a very senior clergyman) but at least it helps you realise they mean no malice by it, and so forgive them.
Richard,
thank you (and, yes, I’m invariably late too).
As to the ‘less introvert’, I wonder if it’s like speaking a foreign language? – over the years we get better at it, especially if immersed in a foreign environment, and more relaxed, and may even master the ticks and clicks that allow us to become fluent and blend in (conform?).. but we remain ‘other’, and never truly ‘at home’?
I think your explanation is right
If ‘Original and Innovative Thinker’ = ‘stroppy’,’flippant’, ‘pain in the arse’,’ruffles feathers’ and (of course) ‘not a team player’ (noting the Venn diagram overlap, indeed congruency there) then, since the latter featured in my, sometimes informal, Performance Appraisal Reports, I’m their man. I have a ‘Not another effing meeting’ tee shirt. I detested ‘Open Plan’.
Funnily enough, when Voluntary Early Release was offered, mine was one of the hands that ‘caught God’s eye’…and when I was asked what I was going to do with my early retirement, I said ‘Stare out of the window…’ They all laughed. They don’t get it. They never get it.
The team-player propellor-heads only ever appoint, and promote, ‘people like us’. It touches on every aspect of ‘diversity’ and fatally limits the gene pool of talent in any organisation. I understand that the Armed Forces in the USA have not only finally recognised it, but given it a name (one which escapes me!). ‘They’ need square holes for us square pegs!
They never do get it
You are right
The research outfit I worked in was for a long time the envy of many around the world. We had the best electron optics facility on the planet and I was regularly greeted at international conferences with “I wish we could do what you do,” Slowly all the innovative thinkers were pensioned off – early – leaving the types that made most noise at meetings and got promoted. Eventually the whole show collapsed and now the UK doesn’t even play that particular game. I occasionally get emails from abroad asking about technical papers I published 15 years ago as new generations of scientists discover the kind of work we were doing before government policy led to a collapse of everything apart from financialisation. I knew the game was up when after I had completed a presentation the director of research asked me when we could stop doing what we were doing. It was fun while it lasted but towards the end it got increasingly harder to get any real work done because of the intrusions of the so-called managers who thought they knew how it should be done but had no evidence of ever having done anything useful in their lives. Those are the people to avoid in your retirement. They know the answers to everything.
Hi Richard,
as I read your piece above it resonated with me, the way I ‘thought/think’, and brought back memories.
I was thought a strange child, I hardly spoke, I used to stare endlessly out of my classroom window (it was across Dundrum Bay to the Mourne Mountains though!), but I would read anything I could get my hands on.
As an adult I always seemed to be a square peg, like you, my preferred brainstorming was singley! Typically, my insights were intuitive, by which I mean I came to a ‘solution’ instinctively and then had to work backwards as to its logic.
An example I often recall with embarrassment was an employers sheep-dip training exercise on teamworking; as part of a team of eight, a facilitator introduced an issue that needed a resolution and we were supposed to work as a team to brainstorm and present a solution within one hour. So, the first thing the team decided to do was discuss the team organisation and selection of a leader. About 5 minutes into this discussion I interrrupted and gave them a solution to the problem: they stared at me and then ignored me and continuing their discussions, whereupon I went into daydream mode! When the hour was up, the ‘team’ came up with a ‘solution’ which the facilitator explained was incorrect, but praised their processes and teamworking. He then turned to me and stated to the group that my solution was in fact the correct one, but then admonished me for not trying to persuade the group of the correct solution and my non-participation!
It was only when a very wise finance director sent me on a ‘development’ course including psychological assessments, that I was found to be highly introverted, INTP in Myers-Briggs parlance. It was something of a revelation.
Like Hazel, I have recently retired and I couldn’t he more relaxed, free from the oppressive extroverts and extrovert culture that was the norm.
PS Anyone who suspects they may be introverts could do worse than take a look this book by Susan Cain ‘Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can’t Stop Talking’, I found it scarily accurate for me.
PPS It is my introversion that drives this long-winded posting…..
I appreciate your post
It was a revelation to me when I realised I was an INTJ
It explained a great deal of the stress in my life. I changed many of my working patterns to address the issues I themn understood
There’s a lot of ‘bad press’ for open plan both in the article and this thread.
I’ve worked in many differing office environments from rooms with 6 people to large open plan floors where the same six people sit in ‘clumps of desks’ in a floor of around 100 people. Also shared desk environments where flexible and home working was the norm and also where staff work in specific locations for (say) a month at a time.
Personally, I’ve never found any real problems with any of this. I’d be interested to know what the objections are to ‘open plan’ and what alternatives people prefer.
Also, to suggest that ‘we have remarkably little innovation’ is difficult to understand given what we have now compared to 30 or so years ago.
Graham
What I am going to say IOs not criticism. It is just that what you are saying is a comment almost certainly an extrovert.
To explain the difference as simply as possible, an extrovert draws their energy from interaction with others, and therefore finds such an environment as you describe stimulating. Which is great. An introvert draws their energy from within themselves. Very often they do as a result find interaction with others a drain on their energy. They’re not anti-social; bad humoured; on a sprectrum (except of extroversion / introversion) or unfriendly. They just need space, silence, and some (not perpetual or total, but some) isolation to maintain their equilibrium and so be in balance with others.
The difference is often best explained by considering a common social event, such as a party or after work drink. The extrovert will be energised by these. The introvert will be drained. They may well need time to recover, as I often do after conferences, for example.
The work environment you describe does, then, suit you. For an introvert it is a way to make their life really hard. And they may just not be able to function in such an environment. I am quite sure I could not.
The world needs extroverts.
I would suggest it also needs introverts.
I would add that introverts have no choice but understand extroversion. It is imposed on us envy where, and all the time.
Extroverts need to understand introverts.
The extrovert world shows no sign of wanting to do so.
PS Years ago I recorded a television programme about Mohammed al Fayed and his tax affairs. I was asked how I would have reacted if I had secured his tax deal. I said I would have had a party. My wife said he could sue me. I would never have a party, she said. She may be right. I socialise, a lot. But please save me from parties and all those things like them. They are not quite my idea of hell. But you won’t find me in the kitchen. You’ll find me on my way home as soon as possible, even when I like everyone present. Just give me small groups please. With decent intervals in between.
Richard
Thanks for your considered response.
I’ve no issues with your analysis – however what I’m unsure about is how this works in the world of work for the majority of people. It’s not clear to me how a company can set up options for the majority of workers (rather than management types) who would like their own space. One example might be a car factory.
By way of background (which I never normally do as I have experienced people telling me what as bastard I am) – I worked at a senior level for a large financial services organisation in the call centre space. Also, I have set up and run my own call centre company. Clearly all recruits into these businesses had to be comfortable with open plan working & team dynamics with a lot of social activity (!). Otherwise the job is not for them. This also applies to management in this particular industry.
Innovation in this area is produced by professional management teams and technology suppliers. I’ve met some serious introverts in the deep weeds of major technology companies who were given what they wanted as their employers recognised the capability. But – this is a few people & cannot be replicated in the mass market.
In summary my point is – choice of occupation is critical for both extrovert and introverts.
Be interested in your view.
My reply will be a separate blog post
Last year I went to a conference on “Toxic organisations: managerialism and the fetishisation of measurement.’
It looked at, among other things, micro-management. We heard, though, of one company whose set of rules was very short.
You will use your best judgement at all times. There are no other rules.
I quite like it.
🙂
About fifty years ago, Ian, when I was a young Customs Officer about I attended an introductory training course.
‘Over there, ladies and gentlemen, are two bookcases containing the 126 Volumes relating to the law and practice which govern your future careers. In the next four weeks we shall attempt to teach you about it, and then you’ll forget it, and in any event when you’re on a 250,000 ton oil -tanker 7 miles out from Southend Pier in a force 9 gale and the crew have just mutinied and cracked open the bonded store because they havent been paid for seven months those 126 Volumes will be of no use to you. You’re going to have to use your best judgement…’
During the following fifty years I never heard wiser words, indeed heard many many more inane ones…I’m pleased to hear that, somewhere out there, common sense is coming back into fashion.
I was unaware of the condition of being an INTJ.
A perfunctory perusal indicates I have some of the symptoms but not all of them.
But then I’m a Pisces……. 🙂
But I find the whole concept of the classification of different personality types intriguing. It might perhaps be instructive to investigate Myers Briggs further. I came across Transactional Analysis many years ago which offers a simplified separation of character types.
‘Nosce teipsum’ was the motto of one of the defunct landed families where I grew up. I believe it translates as ‘Know thyself’. Seems a good place to start. Though perhaps rather late in the day !
Explore it further…..it helps self awareness even if you ultimately decide it’s not useful
The issue of open plan or not in working environments is interesting.
We used to have a saying ….’never show an idiot a half-finished job’. He will point out the screamingly obvious defects; such as that you haven’t, yet, fixed the drawer handles to the cabinet you are making …as if you hadn’t noticed. Duh!!
Some of us find this deeply irritating and would therefore prefer to finish what we are doing before subjecting it to scrutiny . Another person would perhaps welcome a reassuring running commentary on how they are getting on.
In the inappropriate work environment either person is going to be miserable and feel oppressed.
For the confirmed introvert I wonder if a religious order would be heaven or hell. I could fancy living in a convent. Perhaps like Sister Josephine. (?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p8cIjqBFls
One of the more thoughtful contributions to a debate I was involved in was that, amongst other consequences, debt has a tendency to stifle innovative thinking. This was said in the context of student loans, but I have no doubt it applies to debt of all stripes. Although believing this may make me a conspiracy theorist, I do believe that that is one reason why the vast level of personal debt is not only tolerated but encouraged by the establishment: debt acts as an anchor on both innovative and also unselfish thinking
Ian Gibson says:
” amongst other consequences, debt has a tendency to stifle innovative thinking….”
That may depend on the individual concerned. Some people might rise to the ‘necessity being the mother of invention’ challenge.
But for the majority, debt stifles more than just innovative thinking, it can also lead to very poor thinking, and decision making even about ‘everyday’, relatively trivial issues. Beyond a certain level of debt, (unspecified, because it obviously varies from person to person according to their circumstances) it ceases to be resolvable without a bailout. But it doesn’t cease to be a constant concern and is thus very debilitating.
If the cost of anti-depressant medications was injected as cash into the bottom of the economy I venture to suggest it would be more efficacious. Expensive in the transition phase because the medication in many cases can’t just be stopped despite industry claims tht it is not ‘addictive’.
There is no pharmaceutical treatment I know of that puts money into the bank account of those that need it, and the only effective cure for poverty is money. In some cases even a small regular injection (of cash) can make a whole heap of difference. And, yes…some would continue to squander it.
To what extent it is valid to consider where we are as the result of a deliberate conspiracy to oppress the poor and make them powerless and easily malleable is questionable, but there is a great deal of evidence which suggests that is precisely the underlying objective of the neoliberal experiment, though of course, as ever, many of the most enthusiastic proponents of such a ‘conspiracy’ don’t realise they are driving it; they believe they are on the side of the angels.
I agree: the only effective cure for poverty is money.
I also suggest that the only effective cure for poverty of thinking is to reject neoliberalism
May I put it this way?
Institutions do not recruit the people they need. They recruit the people they deserve.
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