So, the Commons has voted.
It would seem that it has rejected No Deal, because one non-binding amendment that suggested this was passed.
But it has rejected May's Deal.
And it has rejected creating the time to find a better deal.
And it has rejected staying.
So the Commons has voted, yet again, for wishful thinking and nothing concrete of benefit to anyone.
What can I see happening now?
First, there is no chance of a People's Vote: if the Commons cannot vote to extend Article 50 they could not get the majority required for a second vote. I call that option dead.
For the record, so too is staying: I do not think there is anything like a majority for that.
So there are only two known options.
One is the EU's deal, which was once called May's deal, but can't be any more as she has apparently abandoned it.
And the other is No Deal.
I think that's what's left. And I can't see changes to either.
So, what would you do? Vote No Deal? Or the EU's deal?
I am beginning to think that I would vote for the EU's deal? Why? Because it leaves us in the EU. And it leaves everything open to negotiation thereafter.
It pains me to say it, because this deal is profoundly unattractive. But it is better than No Deal.
The only good thing is that May has now rejected it. Which means that she will never be able to claim it as a win.
But that's mighty small consolation.
I'll sleep on this, but that's my view right now.
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Is one hope for non politicians to grab the microphone ? CBI , major manufacturers, banks and so on?
What will it take for the mass of ‘don’t knows’ and ‘we had a vote’ people to wake up and face the reality of where we are.
I wish I knew
Sometimes it’s a good thing to remind ourselves that it ain’t over till the fat lady sings… and that could be quite some way off yet. Just because we can’t envisage something doesn’t mean it can’t happen. Let’s not despair just yet.
Yes, Bill. Quite correct.
Tedious as it may seem, this is a long game.
I campaign for remain, I voted for remain. But now I don’t care how the UK leaves, because whatever way it is, I believe it will bring Scottish independence so much closer. Independence is the only way forward for Scotland.
Perhaps art50 notice is not even legally valid, and doesn’t need revoking? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-article-50-illusion-never-triggered-eu-counsel-magazine-barrister-david-wolchover-theresa-may-a7803596.html
That doesn’t matter
The referendum was illegal
And not binding
But politicians are ignoring that too
Wholeheartedly agreed Sir!
Most of the time Westminster acts like Northern Ireland doesnt even exist. Yet British politics has a habit of being forced back to confront the reality of the Northern Ireland border, and so it is now with Brexit.
There is a circle that cannot be squared here. The British want to take back national control of their borders, whatever the economic costs to all sides. But the EU cannot accept a hard border for their own member state in Eire, knowing what a politically divisive issue this is for peace in Ireland. Two and a half years have proved that there is no solution to this contradiction.
And so we drift inevitably into no-deal, with no party able to be blamed for the outcome, because it was the default. Once a hard border has happened, both sides can begin to work on compromises that soften the effect. The EU could give us tariff free trade deals like those with Canada and Japan that cover most physical goods and agricultural produce. Britain could strike a bi-lateral deal with Eire to allow the free movement of people across the Irish border, relying on “technological” solutions to maintain some degree of electronic surveillance.
However, you frame this, Brexit always made a break between the North and South of Ireland inevitable. What we are proving is that the only way this can come about is through a hard Brexit, that is not sanctioned by the EU. I wish I could see an alternative, but there seems no other politically acceptable way through this. Better all strap in because this is going to be a very bumpy ride, and we will all be left wondering how the hell it came to this.
I simply do not agree
Just to be clear personally I want a People’s Vote which I hope could reverse Brexit. I am only saying here what I think will happen. No-one (except maybe Theresa May) thinks the EU will change their position on the backstop. The ERG only voted for her amendment last night to run down the clock a bit more, and parliament has not shown any serious will to stop them.
‘How did it come to all this’.
To me that is a redundant question. We know how this came to be. They even made a drama out of it on TV my friend.
But to summarise it came to this because:
1) All English politicians have a problem with the perceived loss of sovereignty as a member of the EU since the EU development started in earnest after WWII (which is bizarre since the UK is represented at the Council of Ministers where it agrees or not with what is proposed there before it becomes law or policy in the UK). Read Hugo Young’s ‘This Blessed Plot’ (1998). So even though the EU is democratic and involves us (and even lets us off joining the Euro or having the Social Chapter for example) too many of our politico’s still feel uncomfortable with it.
2) It just so happens that this has been an open sore in the Tory Party (who were voted in in 2010 and in power) since the Thatcher days, and Prime Minister Cameron thought he could settle the issue with a referendum.
3) Cameron and Co totally underestimated the Euro-sceptics and the UKIP influence who used the power of the internet that sell things to people to sell the Leave vote in the referendum. This meant that the Remain vote was hopelessly outgunned, out-thought and out-fought, hence the result. Cameron thought he had already won when he started the whole thing off. Wrong!
4) The Tories created the Fixed Term Parliament Act because they knew early on that they would be a minority party. They have used the Act in the BREXIT situation to ensure that for now at least even though Parliament cannot be dissolved by the Queen as it cannot come to a decision so we end up just going around in circles.
You could mention how May tried to capitalise on the Leave vote as well in the last election but honestly ‘how we came to this’ is something that can be answered and should be remembered in infamy as well.
Well, it has to be the withdrawal agreement really.
That’s why Theresa May has done it this way. The EU had a tough one with the invented red-lines, but they delivered the best they could, with no help from the UK – we are an embarrassment.
It’s not a good deal for the uk, but it is the only one that works within laws, frameworks and imaginary red lines.
If any of those red lines were taken away, things wouldn’t be so bad – most of Westminster don’t appear to even realise NI exists, so they should encourage Irish reunification and be done with it. There would be few problems with a withdrawal agreement then and trade negotiations would probably go smoothly. But that would entail some sense coming out of Westminster.
I listened to a radio phone-in about a no-deal situation – there is an awful lot of confusion about what that is compared to any kind of deal however pish, it means no transition period, no continuation of deliveries or services, instantly – other countries can’t trade because,,, no deal has been reached. Any kind of deal will allow some kind of transition until we sort things out. The scare-mongering is there because the government is irresponsibly threatening no-deal without any kind of contingencies being put in place. Embarrassing.
Reliable left blogger here agrees with your analysis, and holds those Labour MPs who voted for the Brady amendment just as responsible as the Tories: https://averypublicsociologist.blogspot.com/2019/01/lurching-towards-no-deal.html
I concur. TM is keeping the ERG at arm’s length as she kicks the can one more time. The Tories outside this group who voted against her will be the cohort that must capitulate when push comes to shove, along with Labour defectors. It delivers a Brexit for the Tory electoral base, keeps the affair in the family and excludes reliance upon a Labour-initiated confidence motion, but most likely although not necessarily relies upon further sweeteners to the DUP. Promises to all and sundry on future free trade deal expedited passage, sunlit uplands asap, further cash transfers to DUP and favourite treatment for NI, and “guarantees ” on workers’ rights as sop to Labour rebels. Job’s a good ‘un. Even though it’s a disaster. TM resigns, job done. And may the fates have mercy. Just my two penn’orth.
As of now, my view is that the Tories will try to control the country’s cognitive map of what is going on.
May will go to Europe about her deal/their deal which she no longer supports , a disagreement will be contrived (perhaps) that makes Europe look like the intransigent party and we all know what could happen after that.
We need a new leader, a new political party who have a totally different attitude to Europe.
And that may very well NOT be Labour given that they too have internal divisions about Europe (and always have).
Personally I would grovel to the EU as much as was necessary to keep people in jobs and keep prices affordable and to keep supplies rolling in. I’d grovel in the knowledge that lesser Englishmen & women had put me in that position and I’d take it like a man in order to save this wretched situation.
That grovelling, in a strange way, would be the only honourable thing to do.
Having (badly) slept on it, I regret to say you’re right, those are the two options left.
The WA as it (badly) stands, or no deal.
The latter just doesn’t bear thinking about. The former is a lasting nightmare.
I’m beginning to think and say aloud, which is worse, that if things get really tough, I can always ‘go home’…this is not something I’ve thought for a few decades, home has been Wales since the late 80s….but here we are.
I’m thinking & saying it, but even their crappy deal won’t make me do it.
What sort of political system offers a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea ?
I have the niggling thought that I might have to vote for ‘No Deal’ as being the only way to bring home to the congenitally stupid in the UK that the UK may be an Island, but paraphrasing John Donne, in the modern interconnected world ‘No Island is an Island’.
When the options are all (or both in this case) unacceptable what else is there to do but make things worse. It clearly needs to be ‘broker to need fixed’. And what needs fixed is our democracy and the arcane processes of its operation. Our Parliament is letting us down very badly in order that it can hope to escape responsibility for the chaos caused by refusing to accept responsibility.
Hell’s bells this is a mess.
What a tragic, disgraceful situation. To retain my grip on sanity, I have to agree with Bill’s hoary old adage ‘the game ain’t over till the fat lady sings’, and hope that someone, somewhere, has the will and ability to exercise the leadership required to avoid disaster.
Really, what can you say about last night? An amendment being passed which has no hope of achieving anything, whilst amendments which offer some hope of lessening the chance of a disastrous exit from the EU not being passed due to the pusillanimity not only of a load of Tory moderates, but 14 Labour MP’s, as noted in the article Ian Gibson posted:
“…………… Ian Austin, Kevin Barron, Ronnie Campbell, Rosie Cooper, Jim Fitzpatrick, Caroline Flint, Roger Godsiff, Stephen Hepburn, Kate Hoey, John Mann, Dennis Skinner, Laura Smith, Gareth Snell, and Graham Stringer. ”
Most MP’s know damn well what a disaster no deal would be, but they haven’t got the moral or intellectual integrity to oppose it. All the evidence is there that the Leave campaign lied and broke the law to get their narrow win. All the evidence is there that Britain will be worse off out of the EU. As MP’s are not mindless representatives of their constituents’ views, there is no excuse for them to go along with the default no-deal option. Even if they accept the referendum result, they should make sure the UK leaves the EU in a manner that causes as little disruption as possible.
That being the case, if the only two options now left are the existing very poor quality deal, or no deal, I’d go for the former. If for no other reason than its the lesser of two evils.
Time after time they let the anti EU fanatics dictate the agenda.
SOTD
I agree entirely with your sentiment. This has to be a vote for Britain – not local or regional sentiment. It merely legitimises the lies sown on the internet.
James from Durham
I’ve been to Sunderland, Hartlepool etc., and I know what it is like. But it is nihilistic thinking. But do tell – When you talk of rebuilding Britain – what form will it take? American? Chinese? Singaporean? All better than the European model are they? Well, if you want to work in a factory one day and wear a nappy so that you can poo standing up on the production line because you are not allowed a toilet break – go for it. However, I’d much rather you emigrated to any of the above because I do not wish that on me, my kids, or anyone in fact trading under ‘WTO rules’.
Adam Sawyer
Rhubarb! Your rather twisted argument is equally applicable the other way around – by listening to the Leavers only Parliament is STILL giving in to a Right wing xenophobic sentiment. I see the same in the publics’ views on paedophilia. We see what happens when innocent people mistakenly suspected as being paedophiles get beaten up under the guise of the ‘the people’s justice’. This is why when dealing with paedophiles in society we have to be discrete. And why we need to realise that referenda are to gauge opinion – not to enact policy. Only Parliament can do that – it’s called representative democracy and if you don’t like it, vote for another rep.
And don’t give me any of that ‘will of the people’ bull either. More like its ‘The Willy of the People’ because most of those voting for BREXIT are misled dickheads who cannot think for themselves and add 2 + 2 to get a 7.
Yes – they might very well have a right to be angry but pointing their finger at who the Tories, UKIP and the Daily Mail tell them to will not help them with their problems. Not a one.
This is where populism gets us PSR, as you point out in your last 2 paras. And the leaders of both main parties, and too many MPs pander to it. Cowards.
I think some people have got the idea I am a leave supporter. I’m not. It will be a disaster. But I no longer believe there is a road map to sanity from here that doesn’t pass through the gates of hell. No, I don’t want to live in Singapore. I am a European. I hope we will eventually return to the European community.
Sick of Tax Dodgers – of course it is all madness. But that is where the people of this country are. We are a country in the middle of a psychotic episode. But we are not the first country to go through one of these. Maybe we can get through it without using firearms on each other. If we’re lucky.
I work in Sunderland. I don’t know if you guys even realise just how keen people up here (excluding me) are for a no-deal BREXIT. That’s what they really really want. They are quite sure that nothing bad will happen. But of course, this is the North East where being shafted by London is normal. It’s very important to get that BREXIT has also got tangled up with serious resentment of the London government by working class people who are angry and have decided that they want BREXIT and this time they should get what they want.
In the unlikely event of any positive outcome, a new referendum with a decisive result for staying say, a large proportion will of the country will feel robbed and increasingly disaffected. How did that sort of thing work out in Germany in the 20s and 30s?
I actually think we need a No Deal BREXIT tomorrow. It will be horrible, but hopefully people will understand how they have been lied to and we can then start to rebuild the country. These wretched negotiations have wasted 3 years.
I know that’s what they want
Sometimes politicians have to ignore what people want
As we do on the death penalty
Richard,
“Sometimes politicians have to ignore what people want”
That’s not a particularly democratic sentiment and it exactly plays into the narrative used by the far right to stoke hatred, fear and division.
Oh come on – this has always been the basis on which we have non-mandated MPs
Get real
Sorry, I meant to add that your comment is entirely correct Richard. And of course I meant the Nissan plant relies on the UK being in the EU. Anger is clouding my mind now.
MPs are elected to make important decision on our behalf and that’s what they do. If they slavishly followed popular opinion we’d effectively have mob rule, not democracy.
James, you’ve just proved how stupid the Leave vote is. Namely:
“1) They are quite sure that nothing bad will happen.” How can anybody living in an area where the Nissan plant, which depends on the UK being in the UK for its very existence, be so utterly ignorant of reality?
2) Since when did voting for/against something on the basis of being angry about something else make any sense? Especially when a lot of the problems affecting the NE stem from the same party that has been responsible for Brexit?
3) Given the disastrous effects of Brexit, there’s going to be a damn sight more disaffection if it happens than if its stopped. I have two elderly parents, and if the care system and NHS break down as a result of this madness and they suffer, I am going to be very, very angry. I will be looking for those responsible to be held accountable, and punished for their actions. And if I have to do that myself, I will do.
4) Your last paragraph is dangerous nonsense. It will be horrible, but most Leave voters won’t realize they’ve been lied to – they’re too stupid for that. They’ll blame the EU, or remainers, or Uncle Tom Cobley and all. Rebuild the country, with the morons we’ve got in charge now? Not a hope.
@ James from Durham
(My forebears are from Durham, incidentally)
I don’t understand why the voters of the North East, many of whom are reliant directly or indirectly, on Japanese industry don’t understand why the Japanese set-up manufacturing in the UK, to have access to the EU market.
I guess it’s just down to the lack of media coverage of real life. 🙁
I agree. May will ignore the ‘No No Deal’ vote and there are not enough votes to force a 2nd EU Ref. A General Election is now not going to happen before Brexit date. 59 days to go…, tick tock, tick tock.
I said it a couple of weeks ago, and even as an ardent Remainer, that I’m coming around May’s deal (as dumb as it is) being the best compromise. My thoughts then were that she would win some minor concessions from the EU and they may be enough (with crashing out looming) that she would get 116 MPs to swing in her favour. My thoughts also were that we would be so closely aligned to the EU (even though we were out of it) and then get stuck in the backstop, that the only possibility to break the situation five years down the line would be to have another Referendum: the demographics and finances of the nation in 2024ish would inevitably lead to us voting to go back in.
I still have that feeling, but I’m not so sure any reassurances or tweaks she gets from the EU will be enough to swing 116 MPs.
I have my own compromise – not Malthouse – but Steve. The Steve Compromise. It is to do with the £39B.
Firstly, yes it is not a fee, it is an obligation and we must pay it, and amount-wise it is non-negotiable: £39B napm-napl. Secondly, no-one wants the backstop, but the ERG and DUP fail to understand the nuance, about the backstop giving the UK a competitive advantage and therefore the EU not wanting it.
So, my suggested compromise. The EU accept that we will not begin paying the £39B until the free trade agreement is signed (or in operation). The ERG/DUP will have a visible sign that the EU have an incentive to get out of the backstop. Perhaps this will be enough to sway all but the ultra of ultras.
I realise the compromise panders to this extreme, but I really am just trying to suggest a compromise that the EU and the ERG/DUP will live with. I think the EU are fed up with this and want closure. They won’t get rid of the backstop but perhaps they will accept a delay in getting the £39B divorce settlement.
I think we’d be granted an extension in order to accommodate an election. I think we’d be offered one at the drop of a hat, actually, as I’m sure the EU overall doesn’t want us to leave.
I concur whole heartedly with that Bill.
Interesting. With pro-rata matched funding for NI, perhaps, as long as it’s in place. They’d maybe desire the appearance of the wicket-keeper rather than fear it.
Where did this idea suddenly come from that there are not enough votes to force a 2nd referendum?
What has changed so recently that we are now meant to assume that this is so?
Because there is no sign of them….
It may not be 100 on Labour benches
I’ll look into it.
Reading the comments on this thread it is quite remarkable the degree to which it demonstrates how well the PM’s strategy is working. I wrote this on another thread (forgive me if you are only here to escape my comments elsewhere (!)), suggesting Theresa May’s strategy was as follows:
“Frighten the public to death with No Deal, publish daily in a drip-feed of looming catastrophe the lurid potential outcomes No Deal will bring; no food in the supermarkets, no drugs in the pharmacies, riot, havoc and martial law; all given credence by the fed Media and calculatedly chaotic Civil Service preparations for armageddon, misprepared at lavish public expense; and by these ruthless means, whip public and MPs into the only option left: the appalling May deal (whatever it happens to be on whatever day it is — this is the world of Newspeak after all), that will harm people severely, make them poorer, probably sicker, and they wouldn’t touch with a barge pole unless they had their backs to the wall, with a gun to their head — which the PM is holding close, to demand they vote for whatever deal she decides to claim is the best deal for Britain, even if it is the very one she said was not possible, or even worse — only yesterday: that deal.”
And here, I find that several commenters seem to be succumbing.
May I suggest that this kind of response is precisely why we are here…..
I’d believe that except I happen to think the No Deal stories are true….
” I happen to think the No Deal stories are true….”
I think if the predictions of ensuing chaos were not to a large degree realistic, the government would not even have bothered with the only half-arsed panic measures it is putting place. I have no confidence that these provisions will be remotely adequate; if the ninety trucks to Dover experiment is typical of our readiness, we are right to be worried.
The private sector industries are taking defensive steps. Stock piling against the threat of import and export gridlock. We’ll pay for this at least financially in the near future in higher prices for all manner of goods, simply to offset the costs to these large commercial concerns who have apparently committed huge resources hoping to ensure they can continue to operate. Given no-one yet knows what scenario to expect much of this planning must be little better than intelligent guesswork, hoping to cover all eventualities.
It seems improbable that we will be able to ‘Keep Calm and Carry On’. Too many people are already living on the edge with no financial leeway and empty cupboards.
For anyone who has not already seen it, I’ll post this again. It gives an outline of the sort of complexities of any kind of Brexit. It doesn’t sound like hysterical ‘scare-mongering’ to me. It sounds like an appraisal of the difficulties our seemingly quite incompetent government has barely begun to address.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnwhfdZmydw
I would suggest there are two processes acting simultaneously. First the campaign of fear to drive MPs and public opinion to accept the PM’s deal (whatever that turns out to be; it is whatever the PM says it is). Second there is ‘reality’; the government executive preparations for No Deal are mostly far too late to have much effect on the ground; hence the pending catastrophe, which usefully (and ironically) feeds the Government Project Fear narrative, albeit probably accidentally. Of course the PM has no idea whether the EU or Parliament will finally fall into line; the EU we may surmise will not, the latter – who knows. There is therefore a high risk that we fall out of the EU with No Deal. But what follows?
Even then, some of the PM’s red lines will have been met; fundamentally we will be out of the EU; without a customs union, without the ECJ, without the backstop and on the 29th March deadline. So from the PM’s perspective (i.e, the red lines), not a complete disaster at all.
You work it out.
I’ve tried to work it out.
Channel 4 News last night interviewed the head of Dover Docks. He said that he’d not had any info from the Government as to how a No Deal Dover would work. Nothing. He was also worried about the lack of time to bed in any new technology to keep Dover running.
A leading haulier was also interviewed and he felt that there would no way Dover could cope with a No Deal situation.
The political consequences of a No Deal to this Tory Government given the potential issues (just consider what hundreds of thousands of Euro-holidaying Brits might come up against this year when one considers Paul Spicker’s blog) are potentially huge.
http://blog.spicker.uk/brexit-is-set-to-deprive-uk-citizens-of-basic-rights/
If HM opposition handled this right, it could keep the Tories out of power for a long time.
The red lines that May imposes will turn into lines that strangle her own party. This would be rather apt but the chaos this will cause gives me no cause for satisfaction.
May will go down, but she will take her party and the country down with her. The Tories are on the way to becoming a lost cause and maybe the better Tory MPs can see that and now need to put the country before party? Labour needs to keep banging on about this to the Tories and to its own members who voted as they did the other day.
I cannot see the EU budging except to give us more time to untangle. That is the only way out – a longer good bye and a custom union plus EU citizen’s rights preserved as parliament has requested But not May’s deal which she apparently has abandoned herself.
How does May want to be remembered as a PM? What is going on in her head? I am beginning to think that she hates us all – remainer and leaver alike. I actually think that she is enjoying this. And that is very worrying. She is fast becoming the Cruella de Vil of British politics or even of prime ministers.
Can Labour table another no confidence vote? Maybe they should table one every week?
Who is to know what sort of horse trading is going to go on even this late in the game John? May’s trajectory though will destroy citizens rights and the single market and Parliament has said that it does not want this. So why should Europe cut us any slack when Parliament has spoken and laid down some red lines of its own? Yet the Tories will not put down their own leader. Her tenure of the post needs to be euthanized. Her fellow Tories may well cone to that conclusion.
Meanwhile, on the internet, Leave and Remain campaigns have kicked off again and C4 pointed out some of the lies being told on the Leave side – again!
I saw the interview
This guy is ex Jersey
He is no lefty
And he was saying Dover is f***ed
But the Tories and media simply do not believe it
Or they still believe May will get her way
I do not think there are any Tories who will save us from this madness
Well, if that is the case, the shit is going to hit the fan.
And it may well make the Tories un-electable afterwards. But it is a high cost to pay for the country to rid itself of these right wing reactionaries which is all modern Toryism has been about.
But it is a cost that maybe must be met?
If I was any progressive party now, I’d be thinking about a No Deal aftermath and how to capitalise on it or at least be there with some answers if that’s the way it goes.
“I do not think there are any Tories who will save us from this madness”.
Be that as it may, in Parliament, in the last 57 days before we fall out the EU, if anything is going to be achieved it will require to be achieved by bridging the floor of the House of Commons, and reaching an accomodation with some Conservatives; that is just a fact. It is very difficult for them because they know the consequences of their actions could be irrevocably to split the Party, with all that follows, not least for them; that too is a fact.
Such a political accommodation is also most likely to be achieved only by circumventing Government, because the PM has shown over many months that she is incapable of compromise. Her invitations to discussion across the floor have all been invitations to accept her red lines, and sign a blank cheque, to her account. The PM clearly conflates compromise with Public Relations; whatever is resolved it is far removed from reality: appearance is all.
By such means we arrive at the brink of No Deal. Incidentally, I would not waste time attempting to fathom the psychology and politics of Theresa May, it will scarcely repay the endeavour either in terms of the illumination it provides, or the product it achieves. The PM is best considered simply as an ‘immovable obstruction’; take relief, and play on.
I think that the idea John that somehow May & her team have to be removed has got legs and it is something that might emerge.
A no deal will do tremendous harm to us but also to her party. That sort of collateral damage might be too much for some of them.
I do not wish to appear a mere quibbling pedant, but you do not remove an immovable obstruction; you go round it (Rule 24-2, Rules of Golf – allow me the whimsical metaphor).
James, I know you’re not a leave supporter, sorry if I gave the impression I did. You’re right about this being a psychotic episode. What I find so pathetic is the cowardice of so many MP’s who refuse to stop it because they have to ‘respect the referendum result’
Quite apart from the lying and illegality of the Leave vote, this makes a complete mockery of representative democracy. So what if your constituents were ‘angry at the status quo’? So were many of the Germans who voted for the Nazis in 1933. That didn’t end very well did it?
Sorry James.
My rant was more rhetorical than personal. Yes – do stay here and you have point – I don’t know whether to laugh or cry myself but I agree with Owen Jones in the Guardian today – this is a Tory created problem and on their heads the consequences of this should be laid.
To put a double lock on fiscal policy is one thing; but to put a double lock on democracy via the FTPA – so low, so very low.
The FTPA has created a ‘Tory Keep’ in Parliament that they are now set to defend it seems to the death.
I can call upon all true parliamentarians of all colours to lay siege to it.
We need big speech from an opposition urging parliament to overcome May. Parliament knows that any form of BREXIT will cause disruption to the economy. It has also asked that EU citizens rights for those in the Union be preserved. Parliament has asked. Now it must make sure that it gets what it asked for.
John
May is not an ‘immovable object’. She is flesh and bone like the rest of us. Don’t give her any more credence than she deserves. And is she really that credible? Even within her own party? Knives have been sharpened already. Whether she is moved or Parliament goes around her it is ‘either, or’.
But it has to be one of them. Hopefully it will be both. Armies that go around areas of stiff resistance still have to go back and snuff it out eventually. As long as she is leader, enough people will cling to her as a symbol of resistance to Europe. She has to be made to go somehow as she is part of that particular problem.
You are being too literal. Theresa May gratuitously created the red lines which have placed us firmly in this predicament. The Conservatives are frightened to remove her because even they have no confidence in anyone else; and privately, clearly have no confidence in her; but vote for her. She is still there. She can win a Confidence motion on the floor of the House – and virtually nothing else. She voted Remain. And yet she remained. She couldn’t win an election, and she remained; she has led Brexit to disaster, and ended by voting against her own deal. She is still there. That looks fairly ‘immovable’ to me.
Theresa May and Jermey Corbyn appear to me like two drunks without a lamppost; farcically holding each other up, even as they drag each other down.
@Pilgrim Slight Return
“Armies that go around areas of stiff resistance still have to go back and snuff it out eventually. ”
Not necessarily….although there is always that danger. If the stiff resistance is isolated from its supply chain it merely dies in situ.
Think the German troop at Stalingrad. There was bugger-all left to snuff out. There have been other examples throughout history of military incompetence where similar results were ‘achieved’.
May will be disposed of by her own kind with sharper teeth.