This is the week when the UK has to agree a deal with the EU, or the inexorable March of time means nothing can be delivered by 29 March 2019. The clock is not just ticking. The alarm is about to go off.
That metaphor appears appropriate. I cannot recall a time when such a disastrous sequence of events was so clearly predictable and there was not a single leading politician willing or apparently able to address the need of the moment.
The need of the moment is to say that no one would have planned the Brexit that is on the table. That outcome was predictable given May's red lines, the EU's determination that the UK must be worse off after Brexit and the UK's existing obligations to Ireland. The consequence is a mess. Unsurprisingly no one finds that mess appealing. But no one is willing to back down.
Or not quite, I suspect.
I strongly suspect the EU would accept Article 50 renunciation, albeit at a cost.
And I strongly suspect a majority in Parliament would in a free vote accept that as the best deal that could be secured.
I do not think this is unsaleable in the country. It would just have to be admitted that Brexit was only possible at a price not worth paying.
And of course May would have to go.
Of course there would need to be an election.
And then what?
I wish I knew.
Given that Corbyn remains convinced by Leave, his alternative to May is unlikely to answer a national need.
So, we have to look to parliament to decide. The breakdown of party allegiance is the necessity for surviving this mess. The creation of a mass of MPs who argue that in the face of failure collective action for the common good is the requirement is what is needed. This will necessitate the suspension of normal lines of difference. It does not require agreement over them. It simply requires agreement that there is a common crisis that parliament may have to resolve alone. If it wants to.
Is that possible given the failure of political leadership being witnessed in the Tories, and by Corbyn, who is actively ignoring his own party's chosen wishes and policy as if its membership do not matter?
I do not know. I am not optimistic, at all. Parliament is undoubtedly febrile right now, but not obviously able to act. And if it can't then it is time to imagine the worst.
NB: I am heavily committed to writing over the next day or two. Comment moderation will be intermittent.
Thanks for reading this post.
You can share this post on social media of your choice by clicking these icons:
You can subscribe to this blog's daily email here.
And if you would like to support this blog you can, here:
Professor Murphy, do you know that some Scottish politicians have been to the Court of Session in Edinburgh to ask the court to refer to the ECJ the question as to whether the UK can unilaterally withdraw its triggering of Article 50. https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/strengthening/?utm_source=sendinblue&utm_campaign=Update1037onStrengtheningournegotiatinghandNovember092018&utm_medium=email
The Court of Session has agreed to refer the matter to the ECJ and I believe it is being fast tracked through that court. In the meantime the UK government has appealed to the Court of Session asking them to revoke their original decision. The Court of Session recently (last week?) refused so the referral to the ECJ stands as I understand matters.
If the ECJ rules that the UK can unilaterally recind it’s Article 50 trigger that means that there is no reason why (apart from the Leming like suicidal tendencies of the tory and labour parties) the whole Brexit fiasco should not be consigned to history.
Many a slip of course…
I am well aware
I know Jo Maugham
I contributed to the funding for this case
Legalities aside, if following a “peoples’ vote” the UK withdraws its Article 50 notification, how can the EU refuse to accept it? Would it really expel a Member State that has just specifically expressed a desire to remain, just because it did something silly and now wants to undo what it did? I simply don’t believe that the EU has the arrogance, audacity and disrespect for democracy to do that.
The EU has accepted it would agree to Article 50 withdrawal
Richard, could you please accept the fact that Corbyn is not PM and can neither force another EU referendum nor reverse Brexit. It looks like the tories themselves will have to call the whole thing off and/or call a general election before March 2019. If Corbyn were elected before that date he would have the power to just stop Brexit because it’s in the best interests of the people. He should then declare that he would never use referendums to decide on vital economic policy. But until an election is called he is right not to commit to anything at all.
But I do not think he would call Brexit off
Nor do I, and many Labour supporters I know, think he would be elected
And nor do I think poor leaders of oppositions who cannot show the ability to decide, let alone unite, can suddenly become good prime ministers
Let’s be candid, Corbyn is not a good leader and that is really bad news for the left
And it does not make me a Blairite to say so
I read the interview that JC had with Der Spiegel, and I found his remark on leaving the EU wonderfully opaque, but what really struck me about the rest was his concern to ask why people had voted to leave, particularly in parts of the country devastated by Thatcherism. He is the only party leader I have heard talk about this with any sense of seriousness.
I myself am interested in looking at this situation in the light of the fact that so many members of Blair and Brown’s cabinets were populated by large numbers of Northern MP’s who, over 13 years in office, did very little, if anything, to start the much needed work of improving the appalling infrastructure in the North. There have been crumbs, in recent times, but on the whole, outside the major cities – principally Manchester, Leeds and Newcastle, there is nothing worth shouting about.
Remain or leave, the real question is when will the shackles of Thatcherism finally be broken, and the path of national economic and social renewal be started upon?
And the neoliberals in the Commission need to be challenged on the validity of their dangerous and nonsensical economic positions!
Maybe you have not listened to Green politicians then
Or some, at least, in the SNP and Plaid Cymru
There is more to politics than Labour
Why not notice it?
Agreed neither of the 2 main parties are capable of getting us out of this mess. Labour did well in the 2017 election but is not guaranteed to improve on this result in another snap election in response to a no confidence vote in parliament. Momentum, though showing impressive energy and commitment last time may be losing some of its energy now and disillusionment with Corbyn/Mcdonnell leadership. It seems that our only hope is some sort of temporary informal coalition of sane MPs from the 2 parties plus SNP, Liberal and Green support to get out of article 50 and start afresh with proposals for the common good.
Don’t worry. The cavalry is on its way. I gather David Miliband is being bank-rolled back to Blighty to save the country. Well, that’s a relief (not). However, with the LP still yet to make any progress in the polls (https://pollofpolls.eu/GB) one can understand the mounting frustration on the Left in general, feeling that any port will do in a storm. With this level of fragmentation & disagreement across the entire political spectrum there’s no logical expectation for anything other than a national clusterfuck of historic proportions. As Richard Wolff says in his public addresses when describing such idiocy: “We will now pause for the National Anthem”!
Alas, Carol, I have to more than partly agree with Richard on this, and find myself wishing Harold Wilson were still Leader of the Opposition, having lived through both his masterly harrying of the MacMillan Government in 1963/64, when I was 19, and his incredibly skilful handling of his Party between 1973 and 1975, culminating in the Referendum on the EEC (as was).
Text book stuff, where he was in both cases derided for being shifty, but was actually clearly focused on achievable objectives, and willing to use whatever instruments necessary to achieve those objectives, at the risk of appearing shifty. “Eyes on the prize”, in other words. Corbyn’s silence on many things – eg the Irish border – is more than puzzling; it is disturbing and dispiriting.
Wilson
Or John Smith
Like MacMillan or John Smth had of 192 their MPs agreeing a motion of no confidence against him as well as the force of a billionaire-funded hostile MSM…
I am not sure I follow you Carol
But if you are saying that the MPs did not believe in their leader…..
I’m with Carol on this, I must say. My view is that Brexit is a useful neo-liberal decoy to take peoples minds of the real issue: deficit spending and altering of the financial parameters.
The EU cannot make us worse of unless we choose to be by imposing irrelevant deficit limits and cow towing to absurd ECB rules around this. If anyone is in doubt about how morally bankrupt the EU is, please re-read Donald Tusks utterly shocking and ghastly comments on his idea of EU ‘solidarity’ when Greece had paid back its ‘odious’ debts by gutting the country and throwing millions of people out of the healthcare system:
‘You did it! Congratulations to Greece and its people on ending the programme of financial assistance. With huge efforts and European solidarity you seized the day.’
This statement sums the EU, up: where human beings are as of nought compared to deficit targets and the banking system stability (in their terms).
(I await Richard’s usual response about a ‘platonic’ EU that hovers in the ether behind the actual EU and that the present EU isn’t really the EU!!)
After leaving we have the opportunity to show the EU what fiscal powers can do to revive an economy but only if we have a Labour Government. If the Tories are in it will be appalling as usual.
Corbyn is doing the right thing in my view, keep out of this nonsense and focus on what a sovereign Government can do. This might not happen because of a divided country in which case expect more of the same but we should be making the argument about fiscal choices and transformation of the real economy not banging on about leaving the EU and doomsday scenarios after (which, in my view, won;t happen- and if the Tories are in we’ll just get the same nonsense). None of the doomsday predictions happened after the referendum. The EU cannot harm us when we leave UNLESS we choose to.
Don’t be hoodwinked by the ‘Brexit-decoy’ it’s what the neo-libs want.
Disagree too about Wilson and Smith. Ralph Milliband excoriated Wilson for not making the deep seated institutional changes that were needed to transform the country when there was enough power to do so. I seriously doubt SMith would have changed the course of financialisation, though I suspect he would have been significantly better than Blair in terms of vilifying and marginalisaing the vulnerable.
The EU is fast becoming a reality denier. Only this morning, I read a statement by Benoit Coeure of the ECB on climate change and there is zero discussion of policy change whilst emphasising more monetarist thinking and market participants. There is NO time and these nutters bang on about ‘it must be good for business!!
It’a all very well hammering Corbyn but try leading a Party that is still largely the remanants of the very failed Left that has got us here. I think a Labour victory possible and some have talked of a 4% surge and possibly more of non-voters can be reached. The problem is we’ve collectively lost the belief in fiscal policy on a large scale.
If we can get a Left leaning Labour in then we can show what can be done and actually lead Europe towards some renewal and challenge the Right Wing, the rise of whom is largely down the the EU itself.
I could try to reply to this in detail
But in truth, one word will do
Deluded
I am sorry – but I’ll read fiction if I want to note something so unrelated to any known reality
And I will not sit by and be so conceited with my left wing dogma that i will happily watch the well-being of millions destroyed for an experiment that I guarantee will never happen because there is no way the government you imagine will be elected in this country even after Brexit
And unlike Corbyn I am democrat enough to recognise it
He won’t even recognise the votes of his own party and the wishes of its membership
Sounds like you’re in an echo chamber, Richard.
I expect better of you Carol
My comment is based on discussion with a lot of people – especially younger ones – who despair of Corbyn and what he is doing
I am not in an echo chamber
I am offering reasoned opinion that I happen to know many share
I like Jeremy as a person. But right now he literally cannot make a headline, let alone win PMQs against a PM so belittled by her own party that all it can say of his own ability is that it is very limited
And as a non-party aligned person, I think that is wholly fair comment
I have a feeling that there are more people in the echo chamber than outside it, which perhaps means it’s not an echo chamber after all.
Here’s the downpayment on “Project Fear” — the things that have happened already
https://t.co/Kn30QfnLl1
When these come out I check to see if one big one I know of by virtue of having moved to Ireland is on there; so far nothing. No announcement has been made about it, nor will one be made. And it’s already irreversible. The people who have spoken glibly and dismissively about echo chambers are going to find themselves in very hot seats when the consequences of their arrogance, complacency and, in some cases, mendacity, emerge.
Thats a good thread on just how much Business and jobs are being lost. I could add one that I know of, quietly pulling back business from UK to France. My friend there is just relieved that he is close to retirement as he can see a very limited future in a much smaller business.
It’s a shame that the business world is not being more outspoken about what it is forced into doing, but then we hear that they have been sworn to secrecy by the government. One of so many examples of how this is the least transparent government we’ve known.
Good old Jolyon.
I give Corbyn a dispensation because this BREXIT business is just the most irrational thing I have ever seen in my life.
Honestly, BREXIT is rash irrationalism gone mad. It’s that bad. Clear thinking? Clear leadership? Lower your expectations is all I can say.
So much so that any voice of reason is just jumped on. In addition, Corbyn’s stance is not helped by the fact that if he did call for a position that went against the referendum ‘result’ he is just like May – vulnerable to those in his party who have never accepted his leadership – and we know who they are. And the MSM would have a field day denouncing him.
And the Corbyn refuseniks are just as much to blame as the man himself – if not more so IMHO.
How would I play it? Well I’d make BREXIT empathetic noises until the Tories implode. Then if I won the election I would just tell the Leavers to sod off and then set about my job along the lines of a courageous statesman. The uplift in living standards by really cancelling austerity might mean that I forgiven at the next election.
Or thinking more long term I’d wait until the next election – likely to be held whilst in the vice like grip of a post BREXIT recession, and then if I won I’d take us back into Europe.
But I mean ………….BREXIT!! There’s nothing normal or usual about any if it. It’s an infernal mess. Which means that we may still end up being surprised at what happens next (this the little bit of hope I cling to admittedly).
I think the crux of the issue is WHEN BREXIT is now brought to an end.
In the mean time here is a interesting point of view of someone else I trust:
http://blog.spicker.uk/brexit-should-be-stopped-but-im-not-convinced-that-the-way-to-do-it-is-by-a-second-referendum/
“….The breakdown of party allegiance is the necessity for surviving this mess…..”
This is the only glimmer of a positive outcome I can detect from this entire Brexit farce.
If we are prepared to rationalise our political parties’ alignments in such a way that we might guess what we are voting for it will have perhaps been worthwhile.
Two things militate against this (in addition to the general intransigence and apathy of our polity) Firstly we have a mythical terror of the prospect of coalition government even though that is effectively what we are currently living with in the form of amorphous broad-church parties.
Secondly for more diverse party allegiances to work to our collective national advantage we would have to accept the need to adopt a form of PR voting which would be reflective of electors’ wishes.
So….I’m not confident of seeing any good come out of Brexit because I don’t think we are going to be able to apply enough pressure to disrupt the cosy, two-party-dominant, pro-establishment Westminster village. Our elite, and effete professional politicians are not going to give up their comfortable status and privilege without a fight.
That’s about where my thinking has got to. A break down of current political allegiances – which have now become very fragile on both sides. An interim stage of a coalition, centre-left (and let’s not start tribal debates on just what that means) potentially including Greens, SNP, LibDems, Plaid Cymru and independent MPs from both Labour and Conservatives. Leading to a realignment, ideally along with PR, and much more decentralisation of power. To regions as well as nations.
Unfortunately it’s probably going to take a disastrous Brexit to precipitate something like this. Problems with supplies of food, medicine, fuel, let alone less essential items. Shortages of people in all sectors as skilled and less skilled leave the country. And even then I’d not bet on it. I just can’t see where the leadership is going to come from, individual or collective.
Caroline Lucas
The only two words I have
Well it’s interesting that your stance is completely opposite to that of Bill Mitchell – I paste his conclusions from today’s blog.
We have also never suggested that Britain is in a good shape at present. Indeed, my on-going analysis of the Britain economic situation could never be construed as being supportive of current economic policy, the overall performance of the British government nor a sign that there should be complacency on the side of the Left.
In the Jacobin article, Thomas and I wrote:
Just as Britain’s current economic woes have much more to do with domestic economic policies than with the outcome of the referendum, the country’s future largely depends on the domestic policies followed by future British governments, and not on the result of the UK’s negotiations with the EU.
And I followed that sentiment up with this type of analysis — How to distort the Brexit debate — exclude significant factors! (June 25, 2018).
But none of the ‘new’ data revises the old. What we said then remains true.
And while the on-going Brexit saga has somewhat altered things — some for the good and some for the bad — I would not (and I am sure this also applies to Thomas) change the tenor of our April 2018 Jacobin article.
The latest events in Italy only serve to reinforce our view that the EU is a neoliberal, corportatist state and Britain should be so lucky to escape it.
Let me be clear: I would suggest no one rely on Bill Mitchell’s political judgement
For any left winger, as he claims to be, to suggest that answer lies with Italy’s current neo-fascist regime, as he is now doing, implies a loss of all sense of any judgement of any sort at all
And the abandonment of any credibility as a left winger
Or as a person of principle
Bill is the problem, not the solution when it comes to MMT, in my opinion, and the single biggest reason why it will have difficulty getting any credibility
He has got this entirely wrong
As is his Lexit desire to destroy the well-being of vast numbers of people in the UK abandonment of any concern for people in this country
I am sorry – but please don’t quote Bill at me: I don’t support those who favourably promote the policy of neo-fascist governments and am happy to say that I don’t and won’t
You deplore fascism and yet you support an economic bloc espousing neoliberal principles. You want a change from neoliberalism but you think the best way to get it is to cosy up to the EU. You are always very critical of woolly thinking by others and yet you wish to cling to nurse for fear of something worse. I’m afraid I don’t understand your logic.
Also, you clearly have an issue with Bill Mitchell. Perhaps you ought to have issues with a government like ours that continues with austerity, sells weapons to despots, wishes to do trade deals with Trump and yet you’d obviously prefer a continuation of all that than support Corbyn who wishes to march in the opposite direction just because he doesn’t match up to your idea of a great leader. You want an end to liberalism but obviously not enough.
Fascism and neoliberalism are nit the same thing
And the EU reflects its constituents
It is neoliberal because they have been
That means it is neoliberal by democratic choice
And why do I count to the EU? Where’s the alternative for European 7nity?
As for austerity and my preference for it – that is such drivel I presume you’re just being rude
You might recall I wrote Corbynomics
My criticism of Corbyn is he has not a clue how to deliver it
And Michell really sires with neo- fascists
And you don’t care
Please don’t call again
Like someone else I know, you reject Bill Mitchell’s blog on the Italian economy out of hand and say he supports fascists. For your information the Finance Minister Professor Giovanni Tria, who wrote the draft budget which is the subject of the blog, is an Independent. The blog is a fine bit of economic analysis.
Carol
I am sorry
You want me to mark you down with the neo-fascist supporters club too now? Because that is what you are based on this comment
And for the record, I agree with Howard Reed’s analysis of this blog post on Facebook
For someone claiming to be from the left wing it was beyond any acceptable limit
As is your comment
Please don’t call again
I have had enough of your nonsense now
Richard
Hard to say anything about Corbyn because of all the dog-whistle around that he is a “commie” This material is hopeless. To criticise him seems to be received as though one has fallen for that or that he will turn the country into Venezuela. I don’t see how an election can be forced as Labour keeps bleating. May is a ghastly incompetent and Tories won’t climb down in the public interest anymore than Corbyn will retire for the good of the Party. I don’t know that I still live in a democracy and feel a new constitution is now more important than the omnishambles.
My criticism of Corbyn and McDonnell is that they are making a waste of a crisis, yet again
When people are begging for a vision they offer mush
That is not what the country or the left require. Blair did that perfectly well enough
I think a breakdown of party discipline would be an excellent thing for democracy, and not just for resolving Brexit.
I have long thought that the party system and the way that it is policed in Westminster via the whips is extremely anti-democratic and indeed “anti-thought”.
The vast majority of MPs seem to toe the party line on most issues without really giving them much consideration. I would much rather that MPs considered the impact of policies on their constituents and voted according to this/their own sincerely held beliefs.
How to achieve this is a puzzle – maybe introducing electronic voting, with details of how each MP voted being published after a short delay would lessen the power of the whips?
I do think on the subject of brexit that the path to a 2nd referendum is becoming clearer. Nobody (apart from the 60 or brexit extremists) wants to own the economic chaos that would result from a no-deal and the alternative being proposed by May is obviously inferior to our current membership (or it will be once it has been modified by contact with reality in the form of the EU). In the end the chance to palm this decision off on “the people” will prove too tempting.
Jeremy Corbyn is correct to support the people’s decision to opt for Brexit. He is highly likely to be elected Prime Minister – his platform resonates strongly with the people, he is an authentic leader, the Tories are in disarray, and his Blairite foes lack credibility. But if the UK remains in the EU key aspects of Corbyn’s agenda could be overruled by the European Court of Justice on the grounds of the EU’s deeply flawed rules regarding internal markets, state aid, and public procurement. No nation state should tolerate these self-imposed constraints on its policy prerogatives. It is a very good thing that a Corbyn Government won’t have to cross its fingers and hope that the ECJ won’t interfere with its agenda. Brexit will deliver the UK Parliament the discretion to pursue socialist policies that economically illiterate EU bureaucrats abhor.
I wish you well with that thinking
And if you think nations states exist in isolation, I suggest you are living in cloud cuckoo land
Wait until you see what the WTO does in that case and you’ll dream of the EU where we had the chance to influence outcomes
And if Corbyn was any good he’d rleish the chance to take the EU with him on the journey he wants. Since when was socialism a tale of isolation?
The idea of Corbyn having any ‘chance to take the EU with him on the journey he wants’ and thereby achieving a non-isolationist socialism in the EU seems to me very nearly as unrealistic as believing that ‘Brexit will deliver the UK Parliament the discretion to pursue socialist policies that economically illiterate EU bureaucrats abhor’.
But one is at least driven by socialist principles
“Jeremy Corbyn is correct to support the people’s decision to opt for Brexit. He is highly likely to be elected Prime Minister — his platform resonates strongly with the people, he is an authentic leader…”
The people’s decision? Would that be the Scottish people’s decision you mean? Or the Nothern Irish people’s decision? (Ignored by the DUP) Or the 48% of those voting in the referendum throughout the UK who voted remain? He is an authentic leader? – perhaps you need to change the adjective from “authentic” to “unintelligent”, or “stupid”, or “vacillating”. Perhaps you need to drop the noun “leader” when you refer to him. His powers of leadership are sadly wanting. As for his platform resonating with the people,his platform is going to have to do an awful lot of resonating with the Scottish people in order to win back all those seats for Labour from the SNP so as to get a working majority in the HoC.
He isn’t even following Labour Party policy
You’re right, it wasn’t “the people’s decision” it was voted for by 37.5% of those eligible to vote (and before anyone takes issue with me, I can count, I understand the numbers in the referendum). What sort of mad, deluded country makes such massive constitutional decisions on the positive wish of a minority? Such was David Cameron’s arrogance he didn’t even have a Plan A for the referendum, let alone a Plan B. We have been told, especially by the MSM, to “respect” the wishes of the majority of those voting, who voted to leave. Those, many of whom clearly voted against their own self-interest (and yes, all those old Etonians in the leave camp were obviously anti-establishment, eh?), because neither side in the referendum was able or willing to tell them the truth about the effects of Brexit. Plus we have the malign actions of Russia, desperate to destabilise western Europe in any way it can, whose influence on the result may never be fully understood (not by the general public, at any rate). But the final insult is to ask us to respect a result which to some or other extent was founded on xenophobia, and to some or other degree straightforward racism.
Jeremy Corbyn’s antipathy towards the EU is because he thinks it to be a right-wing neoliberal institution. European politics is of course full of technocrats and apparatchiks, so to that extent he’s right. Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Liam Fox and the rest of the swivel-eyed loons on the right hate the EU because the idea of a supra-national organisation that can control so much of what they believe they have the sole right to dictate to us on, is anathema to them.
So the EU is too right wing for the left, and too left wing for the right. So not enough political clout (except for in Scotland) is giving voice to those of us who understand that however imperfect the EU may be (and that fact is undeniable), leaving it is the biggest act of economic self-harm this country could do to itself.
When Cameron, his pal Gideon and Theresa May all tell us they were for remain, their conduct ever since 2015 has been so inept as to suggest to me their support to remain was totally disingenuous, and their real intention all along was for the UK to leave, and to slam the door on the way out too.
All I can say (yet again sorry) is that I cannot recall such a stupid, dangerous and toxic situation arising in my lifetime in politics in this country.
Has there been anything like it in recent memory?
BREXIT is unprecedented in my view. I’m not trying to make excuses for Corbyn and I am aware of his shortcomings but really….I ask you. How did it come to this?
I know of families who have fallen out over this issue and are not on speaking terms as a result. I’ve seen arguments in pubs, trains, parks and fisticuffs too.
BREXIT is totally divisive – even in our society – not just just politics. I’ve never seen anything like it and I have empathy with anyone who is remotely rational and who is caught up in it. It’s a phenomenon.
Andrew Rawnsley got it right in this Sunday’s Observer: ‘The problem with BREXIT is BREXIT’.
That is, it’s ripping us apart – and the really bad stuff hasn’t even started yet.
No one seems to care about the rule breaking that has gone on.
The only way to stop it I’m afraid is to be as disingenuous in bringing about its demise as there was in its creation. BREXIT is a dirty bomb of an issue that will require dirty methods to get rid of it. I’m convinced that we just haven’t got our heads around yet.
And whoever does bring about its demise in the way I think is necessary will need to time it just right.
Did anyone see this?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/12/gordon-brown-on-brexit-a-grownup-among-a-sea-of-idiots
This the most balanced alternative strategy I’ve heard yet. Fancy that! And evidenced based second referendum!
Other than that I still say that a course of action created by lying can only be undone by more lying I’m afraid. The gloves are off. How can you fight such an unethically created situation ethically? Even the law is not being upheld in this instance.
It’s some sort of civil war that has been unleashed upon on us. And yes, we might bash Corbyn but we must retain our anger for those who caused it and those who sought to benefit from it.
The Tories. Unleash yourself on them. Everyone of them is totally unfit for office. Remember that Remainer Anna Soubry is still a member of a Government whose social policies have attracted the interest of the UN:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/12/london-women-impact-welfare-cuts-un-poverty-envoy-philip-alston
It’s our darkest hour for a long time believe you me.
Pilgrim Slight Return says:
“Did anyone see this?”
Gordon Brown might look like a colossus in a very weak field of English politicians, but in Scotland he looks like a lying hound and BS merchant not to be trusted.
If you want him take him away, please. Plenty here would chip in to pay his fare. Not that he needs it, he’s got his trotters well into the trough.
Fair enough Andy but I did not use the word ‘colossus’. You did.
But the fact remains that Brown has chipped in for the side that makes most sense. And that is important for the English – never mind the Scots (who seem eminently more practical about these issues because there is more than any time before a need to be).
Brown had his detractors and his supporters. He’s not perfect. And we know that more than ever before, Scots whose allegiances seem to be based in London are now a turn off for any independence minded Scot – understandably so.
But what would you be saying if he was advocating BREXIT? And I still think Brown talks sense – I have always thought that having come out, we would always scurry back in when we were confronted with the consequences. So be it.
I confirm that in Scotland Brown is regarded as a “yesterday man” whose word cannot be trusted. This view extends beyond the Independence movement. A number of my Labour-voting friends consider him “tarnished goods” whose past reputation damages Labour’s present-day reputation.
Maybe a crowdfunding exercise to buy him a one-way ticket would get support. Is Easter Island far enough?
I remember Remainers hyping “the worst” that would happen soon after a Leave vote, not just after Brexit actually takes effect.
Those Chicken Little scenarios did not come to pass. Absolutely none of them.
People should treat the Remainers’ doomsday scenarios with severe skepticism.
The Remainers are not the best judges of economic outcomes.
The UK Government can always offset any trade-related demand leakages with increased government spending.
In any event, the rest of the EU has been a declining market for UK exports since 2006.
It is important to bear in mind that the EU bureaucrats – sociopaths that they are – want the people of the UK to suffer as a result of their democratically expressed decision. Their treatment of the people of Greece is abominable and should not be excused or defended.
The best way for the UK to proceed post-Brexit is to use fiscal policy and the newly gained complete freedom from silly EU constraints (such as neoliberal rules of public procurement, state aid, and internal markets) to demonstrate that exiting the EU is a smart option for Italy, Spain, and other EU members to take.
At a certain point an organization outlives its usefulness. The EU has long since passed that point.
So the fact our growth is now the slowest in Europe
And the fact that the currency is worth 17% less
And that the economy has slowed astonishingly, with consumers, especially
And that investment has collapsed
Weren’t predicted?
And have happened
Is not evidence for you?
I suggest you stop talking pure nonsense
Brexit has already caused massive harm
And it will create vastly more
And that is what you want
That’s the sociopathic tendency that exists
Nicholas says:
“The UK Government can always offset any trade-related demand leakages with increased government spending.”
Is the same government that could have offset the destructive effects of the GFC with increased government spending ?
In your dreams Nicholas. How would they pay for it ? They wouldn’t. Even though they know, and we know, and they know we know, that they could do exactly that and should have been doing so for the past eight years.
I think those presuming that somehow there is a left wing nirvana after Brexit do really need to think again
And note that even now when May is the most hopeless prime minister, almost ever, Corbyn still cannot take a poll lead
It’s just wild thinking to believe that as things stand that any outcome of Brexit will be good for Labour
“silly EU constraints (such as neoliberal rules of public procurement, state aid, and internal markets)”
That isn’t EU its WTO through the GPA (which we have applied to join in our own right)
https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/gproc_e/gp_gpa_e.htm
Seriously you need to start getting this stuff right.
I agree
Ref No party showing common sense.
I beg to differ, the Scottish National Party produced a policy document within 8 weeks of the Brexit Referendum, which was intended to be for use by the whole of the UK.
Which to this day has been virtually unreported by the BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and the Big Beast Newspapers.
Nicola Sturgeon has been the only party leader with a joined up policy, but because it didn’t suite the MSM agenda it was ignored, but the chickens are about to come home to roost, (or Roast).
PS I agree with your summing up of the complete shambles that is the Brexit negotiations and probable outcome.
I have mentioned the SNP, Greens and Plaid favourably in the last day, as I recall
As a Labour Party member I’m sick and tired of being told that we have chosen the wrong leader. Most of us are very happy with Jeremy who will prove that your ideas of leadership are irrelevant.
With respect, no he won’t
I know him well enough to know that is not going to happen
Sorry – but as an objective observer he does not make the grade
You are not a politician, Richard.
Agreed
But I sure as heck know a bit about them
And I have been asked to stand several times….
Hi Richard,
It’s easy to point the finger at Corbyn but I have yet to hear any of his detractors, (including yourself) offer any realistic alternative to the position Labour has taken?
You point at Caroline Lucas (who I admire greatly) but seriously? The greens have zero chance of ever getting anywhere near power for a long long time – praying for some political revolution amongst young people is as deluded as thinking Lexit will usher in some socialist paradise and on that point I’d take issue with your comment that young people are despairing of Corbyn based on anecdotal evidence from yourself. That’s wishful thinking on your behalf frankly. If you don’t believe me, look at the video of Corbyn addressing the youth parliament last week.
Hang on – the young people I talk to are much angrier with Corbyn than I am
And they’re not Tories
I beg to differ, entirely
I also suggest that the youth parliament is not representative
Carol Wilcox says:
“As a Labour Party member I’m sick and tired of being told that we have chosen the wrong leader. Most of us are very happy with Jeremy who will prove that your ideas of leadership are irrelevant.”
I’d like to think you are right, Carol. We’ve become accustomed to a presidential style of leadership which I don’t rate highly.
Andy, I don’t think it is the lack of a presidential style that is Corbyn’s problem. The UK has had decent leaders in the past who would not have been told that the reason for their success was that their style was ‘presidential’. Corbyn’s problem has to do, it would appear, with his personality. For some reason, he isn’t able to ‘win’ at PMQs as many times as he should. And with May being the most inept Tory leader I have ever seen. Were May Thatcher, Corbyn might have an excuse, but I can’t find one for him. And it isn’t because he isn’t presidential, whatever that may mean in detail.
David Miliband would have been very good at PMQs I always felt, better than any of the other contenders for the leadership at the time. I didn’t vote for him.
Abd nor could I have ever done so
@larry
I wasn’t thinking particularly about PMQs, but I guess that kind of hits the nail on the head.
The government of the UK is all about scoring points at PMQs.
Just because TM is doing her hyena laugh, modelled on Patsy wossname from ‘Ab Fab’ doesn’t mean she won the point.
But apparently it does.
Look folks – let us please just try to get it together here – these are unprecedented, unique times. Yet some of us still believe we can change things by being principled or rational or reasonable. But you can’t. It’s not as simple as that. That was yesterday’s politics. There is not the time (unless we put BREXIT back).
This means that we are seeing behaviour we are not used to.
But it also means that others have yet to play their hand? I cling to that.
As for Corbyn – he is human and fallible. But the refuseniks in his party have not helped him at all. The Labour party as a whole must be responsible for what ever lack of impact they have made. Sorry. Divided opposition parties are not trusted by voters even more than divided parties in Government – Right?
Who is leading BREXIT? Not May. Not Corbyn. Not even Gove, Mogg or Johnson.
Instead, BREXIT has taken on a life of its own and roams the country like the giant invisible monster of the Id as seen in the film ‘The Forbidden Planet’.
BREXIT is us unfortunately – the British people with all our feelings of inadequacy, inferiority, superiority, arrogance, ignorance, pettiness, pride and narrow minded bloody-mindedness (for want of a better term).
I still think we may end up being surprised – that the solution may emerge perhaps from a source we never considered.
But please – this is not a normal situation. Stop thinking that it is. Normal political rules, personalities, conduct do not apply. I’m telling you. I will be heard. The rules are being re-written now. Get used to it and re adjust.
Thanks for sharing..
Ah British Exceptionalism a nation favoured with greater insight than others. That would be why they’ve allowed themselves to be fleeced with house price hyper-inflation since the early 1970’s I suppose!