Gideon Rachman has written in the FT this morning, saying:
The Chinese authorities will also be hoping that the current demonstrations in Hong Kong, which started under the banner of the “Occupy Central” movement, will have more in common with “Occupy Wall Street” — which fizzled out — than with the student movement in China in 1989.
Mr Rachman clearly has a very selective short term memory. I recall Occupy on both sides of the Atlantic ending in oppressive state and police activity and anything but fizzling out.
Perhaps he thinks he was the victor and so has the right to re-write history.
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Your recall is correct, Richard. Both the New York and London Occupy movements were terminated by police action, with the collusion of central and local governments, landowners and other (often non specified) “business interests”. I’ve no doubt that the Chinese authorities will follow much the same strategy, though it’s going to be interesting to see how far they allow Hong Kong Chinese to push before the inevitable clampdown in the name of “stability and order”. Coincidentally, I caught an excellent recap of the Tiananmen Square protest on a BBC programme over the weekend. I’d forgotten how ruthless the crackdown was. Also student led. Luckily for HK students and their supporters, there aren’t any tanks in Hong Kong – as far as I’m aware, anyway. But as the Chinese government is well versed in other forms of oppression I don’t suppose the lack of tanks will deter them from swift and decisive action – as is the way with the Party in everything but tackling its own internal corruption.
Indeed
i don’t think getting tanks from china into hong kong will be very difficult , they don’t have to come far !
Victors don’t rewrite history; we make history.
the hong kong people are incredible . no other occupy protest has been as peaceful , clean , tidy , inclusive and clear in what it wants. i have visited many times and it is a wonderful place. i fear however it will be in vain and it will just be waited out of existence .
David Kirkham’s reply is nauseating, and he should be thoroughly ashamed of himself (needless to say, he and his kind – true capitalists – are incapable of shame). Ivan Horrocks and Chris Cenuittia are both right. The Occupy Wall Street & Occupy London Movements were repressed by police and corporate action – and that action is all the excuse the Communist Chinese authorities now need to do exactly the same, or worse, to the students and other young people who are campaigning for democracy and freedom in Hong Kong now. I am afraid they are destined to be martyrs to the cause – but the ‘blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church’, to quote Tertullian, and their blood will ensure the eventual victory of democracy over Chinese Communism. (Or the monopoly of power of the Chinese Communist Party, which may not be exactly the same thing, since none of the gerontocrats in charge of the CCP actually believes in Communism, and they haven’t done for years.)
One thing the Kirkhams of this world do not seem to realise is that they have killed stone dead the myth that capitalism is a necessary condition for democracy, freedom and human rights – something we were all told was the lesson of the fall of Soviet Communism in 1989-91. We see, in countries like China and Russia, capitalism can and does thrive in the absence of democracy and freedom, as it does in places like Iran and Saudi Arabia. So if capitalism can operate very nicely thank you without freedom or democracy, why can’t freedom and democracy happen without capitalism? Why is liberal democratic socialism still thought of, in some quarters, as some sort of double oxymoron?
I think you have misread David
He was being ironic
And he was heavily involved in Occupy
It certainly didn’t sound like that – but we Aspies aren’t very good on irony, I’m afraid. I owe Mr Kirkham a profound apology, and duly apologise. I hope he will forgive my ignorance of his history, and forgive my adverse comment about him.
It was entirely possible to misread it: don’t take it personally at all
I wondered whether to post it
Well, I hate misreading things. It’s one of the misfortunes of my Asperger Syndrome, I know, that I very often don’t get non-literal uses of language, but even so, I hate it when it leads me to be angry with people when that anger isn’t justified. Would I have blazed away at David Kirkham with all the verbal machine-gun fire at my disposal if I’d understood his real meaning? No, certainly not. It makes me want to shrivel up and die, or if not that, at least shutup for a very long time. Hopefully, I’ll feel better in the morning. I hope that my experience (and sharing my experience) will enable more people to understand something of what this peculiar disability of mine, and so many other people, is all about.
Richard
You are very welcome here – I appreciate your comments
I found the comment odd
If there’s a fault it’s mine. Maybe I should have deleted it
I assure you no harm is done
Richard