This (from the Guardian) is the history of deficits since 1980. Labour repaid more debt than Thatcher by a long way and for a longer period. Major never repaid debt.
Those marching against debt today should reflect on that.
And realise the debt we now face was created by the private sector when the banks crashed.
That's the true story of debt in this country.
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Interesting graphs.
http://duncanseconomicblog.wordpress.com/
I’m sure this is true given that there was more “growth” under New Labour. However, that growth was illusory, brought forward and inflated by a debt fuelled, fabricated consumer boom. Such a boom was bound to end in bust when consumers exhausted their capacities to indebt. Rapid domestic deflation of both demand and “growth” was inevitable and what we’re now experiencing. When will we learn? Probably never. We’d need to learn to accept permanently lower standards of living and growth until consumers and workers in the eastern mega-economies catch up.
I presume you’re aware not one element of your analysis stacks up?
Actually all governments repay debt because they redeem expiring gilts and issue new gilts all the time.
Thatcher never had to repay any net debt because government spending never got badly out of control.
At the time of the surpluses in the early years of Blair/Brown the Labour government was continuing Conservative spending policies in order to avoid frightening the voters.
No doubt why Osborne promised to follow Labour plans until 2008
A fact you’re ignoring, of course
First lesson I ever had in accounting: “Figures don’t lie but Lairs can figure.
Let’s not forget that a lot of Britain’s debt, are off balance sheet – good old creative accounting just like Enron etc. This includes PFI, bank bailout costs, public sector pension shortfalls which are creatively (and deviously) hidden from public view.
Except you’re wrong.
PFI data is easy to find.
Bank bail out debts are in the figures – absurdly as the assets aren’t
And pay as you go pensions aren’t liabilities unless you assume the state will fail
Which maybe something you support, but I don’t
Care to tell your readership why Labour paid off the debt and whos spending plans they were following?
“During the 1997 election campaign, Labour had promised to follow the spending plans drafted by the Conservative government for the period up to 1999, and it was only after the comprehensive spending review in July 2000 that Labour’s spending plans really took off.”
Source: The BBC
But that was labour’s choice
And the Tories have admitted they would never have done it
So who was more responsible, by far?
Those who did it, or those who said they would without ever having intention of doing so?
You can’t win this one
When have the Tories admitted they would never have done it? Citations always make those kind of claims far more believable.
Labour got elected based on an intelligent decision to follow Conservative spending plans. Once they stopped following those plans, they failed to register a single surplus from 2002 until the financial collapse in 2007, through some very good years.
All props to them for agreeing to follow plans which turned out to be better than their own. If they’d managed to keep it up we wouldn’t be in the mess we’re in now.
Ken Clarke said it
And he should have known
2002 was not a good year. Nor s2003
Labour saved the country from recession by spending
And rightly so
I accept and argument that there may have been overspending in 2006 – 07
Not before
And what they did spend was spent wisely on investment
The mess we’re in is all the result of market failure and banker’s recklessness
That’s it in a nutshell. Any other explanation is a lie or it would not have been worldwide. Labour did not run the world
I assume you’re not actually going to give me a citation for Ken Clarke saying that, because it’s not something I can find on Google or Bing.
Spent wisely? Oh, I’m sure that paying full-time trade union officials, buying expensive artwork for government ministries and ‘investing’ in climate change officers, diversity advisers and europe coordinators was wise investment. Also, war is peace, and freedom is slavery?
The mess we’re in, in terms of it being catastrophic, is a result of the fractional reserve banking system which has been a huge issue for a long time and exacerbates the whole boom/bust cycle. In terms of having a sustained budget deficit through the good years and not ‘fixing the roof’, it’s Labour’s fault.
In countries where spending was kept steady through the good years, recovery is well on the way and deficits are back down again. This includes countries which are highly exposed to the financial markets such as Hong Kong, Switzerland, Singapore.
I know it doesn’t suit the leftist ideology to admit that Labour constantly failing to balance the budgets was a problem, and has extended the effects of the bust and the business cycle, but that’s the truth. The recession was global, the pain we’re feeling in recovery is isolated to those countries which have huge debts and bloated public sectors.
Hang on, fractional reserve banking is Labour’s fault? Come on – let’s not get really absurd
I agree:
a) there are problems with fractional reserve banking
b) Labour was too lax on some regulation – but remember Tories fought all the way for less, as did the world at large so they deserve credit for what they did
c) I’ve said Labour overspent in 2005 – 2007
But all that said what you’ve written is simply not true. No one is yet suggesting fractional reserve banking must go – and it was Thatcher with Big Bang who released its dangerous elements
Labour did not cause the economic crisis – it was a world crisis
And Labour did balance the budget – it repaid much, much more debt than Tories did in 1979 – 1997 and over more years between 1997 and 2010
And whilst Labour was wrong in 2010 to cutting deficit in half in 4 years it was doing all the right things to solve the crisis. Osborne has got everything wrong so far
Oh, HGong Kong, Switzerland and Singapore – tax havens all – states that steal tax revenue from otehr locations. Perfect role models for an economic reality for the UK
Your analysis is dire.
This debate with you is over.
The recession was global, the pain we’re feeling in recovery is isolated to those countries which have huge debts and bloated public sectors.
Eh? Germany’s public debt as % of GDP is higher than ours and it is doing quite well at the moment.
Ditto France.
And I bet you don’t think they’re the paragons of efficient public spending!
When will the Right stop getting so hysterical?
“Labour saved the country from recession by spending”
You may not have noticed we’ve just had the deepest downturn since the 1930s. Are you really that stupid?
“And what they did spend was spent wisely on investment”
Rubbish.
I am not now, and never have, and never will exonerate labour from some of the blame for things that went wrong.
Let’s also be absolutely clear. Labour created a period of prosperity for which people were extremely grateful. It is absolutely true that the banks utterly abused regulation. Labour should have been tighter on regulation. Again I agree. But everyone, most especially the Conservatives, argued for a considerably more relaxed regime that would have created a much bigger disaster.
And it is absolutely right to say that the investment undertaken by Labour was, very often, sound. We have new hospital schools and so on all as a result of what they did. It should not have been PFI financed. I agree with that so it should be on public debt and be seen as a result. But that was really not terribly important. We got an enormous benefit. The Tories didn’t do anyhting like that. So Labour had to. We are better placed as a result.
The destruction of investment now, planned by George Osborne, will leave a legacy the future generations which is the real concern of the current situation The debt can be repaid by reflating the economy. The investment backlog will have to be cleared by another government That is Osborne’s recklessness.
You may not have noticed we’ve just had the deepest downturn since the 1930s. Are you really that stupid?
Given that you’ve completely ignored a worldwide banking crisis the stupidity here attaches only to yourself.
I notice that, as usual, the right wingers contributing here lay all the blame for the financial situation on ‘a bloated public sector/irresponsible Labour governments’, and don’t mention the role of the banks. Isn’t it about time the right accepted their share of blame for advocating the political and economic ideas that produced the greatest crash for 80 years, and stopped buck passing, scapegoating and victimising the state and the public sector?