One of the most telling comments on the Apple tax case came from Fintan O'Toole yesterday. As he pointed out Iteland could eradicate child poverty for a decade with the €13 billion of tax it now owes.
And its politicians don't want to do that.
If that is not a definition of corruption I am not sure what is.
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But what is the poverty of thousands of children when set against Apple’s desire to park another chunk of cash in a tax haven doing nothing productive?
+1, but, our politicians are arguing on the principle of our right to levy taxes, not the EU….
Oh, we forgot to tell the EU we had a no state status, sorry, we’ll close that down.
Not corrupt, but classic Irish “cute whore” thinking.
B
Ireland’s tax revenues grew by 10.5% last year, with a bumper year for corporation tax. Compounding these sorts of gains over a few years is more likely to alleviate poverty than one off tax grabs – as China has shown us over the last 30 years http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21578665-nearly-1-billion-people-have-been-taken-out-extreme-poverty-20-years-world-should-aim
And it’s GDP supposedly rose by 26%
Which no one believes
Next you’ll be telling me about the little fellas at the bottom of your garden
You don’t believe the Irish Government’s audited figures? http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2016/0105/757913-exchequer-figures/
I didn’t say that
But let’s be clear that’s because of global clamp downs on tax that mean that companies now want to pay in ireland
It won’t last
Any more than 26% GDP growth will
GDP rose by 26% because the way it’s calculated includes the additional tax take they got from Apple following Ireland’s revision of the arrangements it had made with the company.
In part yes Den
Although it was not Apple alone
But it does reveal the staggering scale of this abuse
Their debt is €208 billion, owed in a foreign currency.
I think I would rather pay it down, and ensure the whole country benefits from more of tax revenue going into public services, rather than paying interest.
Its not like they can print their own (unlike us); You know how Mr Schäuble loves to keep EZ countries debt in check.
What a sad person you are
Personal insults?
Hmmm….
EU rules are rules. Paying down some debt will give them some leeway. The fact that a huge amount of child poverty exists in Ireland is directly due to ‘expenditure restraint’ they were required to apply because of the corrective procedure of the EU SGP. Their child poverty rate is 36%…. Isn’t it better to treat the cause of this, a high national debt, rather than its symptoms?
The fact is they must play the Neoliberal game dictated to them by Europe. They can’t quit. This is the saddest thing of all, especially since its a game who’s rules were made by political idealism of the ruling class. Rich People pushing poor people into poverty.
The best way forward in this game is to pay down their debt. Regrettably. And, if anyone is to blame, its the EU.
I reiterate my comment
You are acquiescing in the neoliberal game
And choosing its victims
My understanding is that in this case, Ireland would be obliged to pay down debt. Not sure I get the logic of that ,
Even if that is incorrect then the numerous demands Ireland has on its resources would make it very difficult to pick and/or choose, both politically and practically.
It strikes me that paying down would represent the better compromise. (And I have no political leanings in any of this. I wouldn’t know what a neoliberal is if it smacked me in the face!)
Den
I have seen nothing that suggests Ireland must spend this in a particular way
Paying down debt would probably the worst use it could make of the funds – far too small a rate for return for that to make any sense
Richard
Its nice to see companies pay the right level of tax, even better if they paid It in the place they earnt it!
You seem to assume the state is run by clean living, publicly spirited types who only have the best interests of the people at heart.
Then you seem surprised when they don’t act that way.
There may or may not be corruption involved. Unless we have names and evidence, the suggestion goes nowhere.
But at senior levels, politicians and civil servants regard themselves as social peers with big business people. They are quite matey. I suspect this is more so in smaller countries like Ireland where ‘everyone knows everyone’ within those circles.
I’ve been in situations where the elected politicians or a director want to help Company X but there are state aid issues – and we sit around the desk trying to work out ways around it. Happens all the time. Only difference this time are the zeros at the end of the figures.
You would find this out quickly if you worked in the public sector yourself, but you are reluctant. Might I suggest you know instinctively that your preconceptions would be shattered?
Read some of my other stuff this morning and stop tilting at windmills
I know you hate your own job but there’s no point presuming the rest of us are clueless as a result
I don’t hate my job. But you seem surprised when the everyday happens.
I have two brothers living with families in Eire so I have spent a lot of time there.
Every Irish person you speak to knows that most of the money helping it to have once been a ‘celtic tiger’ came from abroad or even from the EU.
The reaction of the Irish leaders is understandable at first sight – where will the money to make the Irish economy work come from if they upset an ‘inward investor’ like Apple?
This is the same bunch of politicians who panicked and gave all their Euros to their private banks and the went to the EU for more and were then able to blame their cuts on the ECB because the ECB was not set up to do bailouts.
They have a habit of looking after the rich first I’m afraid and then thinking about the people who vote for them last. I’ve seen what poverty looks like in Dublin and Sligo (and Tipperary) and it ain’t pretty. I’ve seen the young children employed by MacDonalds or CIE in their buffet cars – cheap labour for their ‘fantastic’ economy as they called it in the 1990’s.
The Irish Government could have printed money years ago to invest in its creaking infrastructure (many of the roads are appalling) but didn’t because it believes like so many other Governments that the State is not meant to do that anymore. Now it is a hostage to ‘inward investment’ (it should be called ‘inward divestment’ because it divests the state of its ability to collect reasonable taxes) and to the ECB.
And we thought British politicians were bad!!
The UK is not the only island in the North Sea where lions are led by donkeys.
I have to agree with a lot of that
Boomtown Rats: Banana Republic – says it all wrt Ireland and the politicos that pretend to run it.
I read the article and nowhere does it explain ( or hint at explaining ) how a 13bn Euro windfall could be used to eradicate child poverty. The government could just abolish income tax and social security contibutions for anyone with children which could be a good idea, or just keep taxes the same and increase the hand outs to some massive new level, hand outs which might well be spent on crisps. This might not eliminate poverty of outcomes at all. I think Finlan should explain himself.
Fintan simply does not make unsubstantiated claims
‘Crinklecut Seabrook’
Given the nationality of the topic should your pen name by ‘Tayto’ by by chance?
Don’t get too carried away. He’s a polemicist who lives in a glasshouse. He’s a left-leaning liberal in a centre-right country and has a knack for both being right morally and losing the argument (Corbyn style) because he lacks the charisma of, say, Bernie Sanders. A good chunk of the Irish electorate think “there you go again”, even Irish Times readers.
He has a particular obsession with the constitution’s aspiration “to cherish all the children of the nation equally”. When written it was an implied commitment to treat equally people of all heritages (incl unionists). In Fintan’s world it’s to run a Danish style welfare state. This isn’t *bad* but the Irish have never voted for it.
I am not saying he’s wrong, merely that his prescriptions on child welfare aren’t that popular.
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