Most people don't understand how pensions really work. Not politicians, not City insiders, and probably not you. In this video, I explain why pensions aren't really about savings at all, but about a fundamental contract between generations, and why private pension systems fail to deliver. And this one is really best watched if you can do that.
This is the audio version:
This is the transcript:
Most people have no understanding of how pensions really work. And when I say most people, I include almost everybody who runs a pension company, almost everybody in the City of London, most politicians and most people who will be watching this video.
And I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but when I say you don't understand pensions I really mean it, because you probably think that a pension arrangement is something that you pay money into one day and sometime deep into the future you will claim it back by way of an income, and in the meantime, that money will be saved either in a bank saving account on your behalf by a pension fund, or in shares, or in property, or whatever. That isn't really how pensions work.
That is the microeconomic description of how we try to provide pensions now, but the truth is, there is what I call a 'fundamental pension contract' between generations, which we have to respect if pensions are going to work, and we don't do that. And that's precisely why we have so many problems with pensions in the UK, and in other countries around the world, but let's concentrate on the UK for now.
Let me explain what this fundamental pension contract is. And this, I stress, is a macroeconomic contract. In other words, it's between whole generations, one with another. It's not between you and a pension company, or you and your children; this is about society.
And the basic fundamental pension contract is this, that a generation who is in work will build assets and infrastructure, so that when they come to their retirement age, those assets and that infrastructure will be available for use by a younger generation, who will use them in the course of their work so that they can generate an income that would be bigger than they could otherwise achieve, and out of that bigger income than they could otherwise achieve they will lay some money aside to support the old in their retirement.
In other words, the older generation has a duty to basically build things for the younger generation to use so the younger generation can, in exchange, keep the elderly when they can no longer work. That is the fundamental pension contract.
Will notice I said nothing about savings mechanisms, stocks and shares, or anything else; I'm talking about real economic activity here. Because let's be clear about it, what the elderly live off is not a pension annuity, nor is it a pension drawdown, nor in some sense is it the money that is actually given to them by the state, paid for through taxation. What they live off is the income generated by those still in work when they no longer are. And this is the point that our pension contracts all fundamentally ignore, and which is why I say that people don't understand pensions. The old are dependent on the young giving up their incomes that they have generated to support the elderly.
If I am retired and not working, but wish to eat, I have to take the food off the table of somebody who has generated that food so that I may eat it. That's what I'm talking about here; a fundamental macroeconomic truth that the elderly want the younger generation to pass over parts of their income to them so that they might survive. And this is not a private arrangement; this is something that has to take place on a macro scale.
And why do I say that people don't understand pensions as a result? That's because almost all the private pension arrangements we have fail to recognise this fundamental social contract.
In particular, since we have basically outsourced all pension provision, bar the state pension, and that's not very big, to the private sector, what the private sector does is save pensioners' money - pension contributors' money - and it doesn't actually fund investment.
So, remember what I said the generation in work has to do. They have to create assets and infrastructure that they can pass on to the next generation, but that is not what private pensions do. What private pensions do is put money into speculative assets. Things like stocks and shares. Things like speculative buildings. And those buildings are bought so they can be sold at a profit, they hope, and the people they hope will buy those buildings at a profit will be the next generation.
But the point is, if that building created no new real value in the economy; it was merely bought and sold for speculative purposes, and exactly the same happened with shares, if buying and selling those shares created no new real value in the economy because buying a share does not result in more funds being made available to a company for investment to take place, or to create any new jobs, but does just provide a return to those who trade in them, who are the people in the City of London, then there is no real gain as a consequence of the pension saving, which is what we now prioritise as the mechanism to deliver our old age pensions.
It's not saving that we need to do as part of our pension arrangements; it's investment that we need to do as part of our pension arrangements, and savings and investment are not the same thing.
Saving is a passive activity of putting money aside. Investment is an active activity because it creates new assets or it creates new skills, or whatever it might be, but it is a positive action to create value, whereas saving is simply withdrawing money from the economy so that one day you might be able to go and pick it up again. And there is, in our current private pension arrangement, no recognition of this fact.
There is, in fact, no recognition of the fact that the working generation has this duty to create assets to pass on to the next generation. Instead, all they have to pass on to the next generation is some overvalued shares or some overvalued properties. There's no value inherent in them, particularly if the next generation decides "Well, I'm sorry, but you didn't leave me assets, and skills, or anything else which are going to boost my income to put aside, to keep you going in your retirement", and this is what really worries me.
Now, pay-as-you-go pensions - and our state pension is a pay-as-you-go pension - do not suffer as much from this malaise as the entire private pension industry does. Basically, at present, the entire private pension industry is completely missing the point. All that speculation that it does, all that investment that supposedly goes on through the City of London, is just saving and very, very, very little at all real value is created as a result.
That's not quite the case with regard to pay-as-you-go pensions like the state pensions. They actually do recognise that the younger generation is keeping the older generation because the older generation's pay-as-you-go pension is paid by people who are young and in work now, and therefore, that part of the equation - the reality that the old live off the backs of the young - is reflected in the state pension, and to that degree, it's a better scheme than the private pension schemes that we've got because there's a degree of honesty in it, which private pensions completely lack.
But there is still a failure on the part of the government to recognise that pay-as-you-go pensions should also be associated with the government undertaking investment in the economy to create the assets which will allow future payment of that pay-as-you-go cycle. That isn't happening.
We've actually broken the investment cycle that should be underpinning all our pension contributions, and to some extent, I'm going to give Rachel Reeves just a hint of credit here, because she realises that there should be more investment by UK pension funds in the UK. The trouble is, she too is confusing putting money into things like private equity funds with actually creating value, because private equity funds do not create value, they just create speculative gains. So, again, she's got it wrong.
It's actually the case that we've got to stop saving in pension funds and we've literally got to start investing in pension funds. We have to create a new balance, and that's vital.
So, what is it that we should be doing with our pension funds?
We should be creating new, tangible assets. Factories, green power plants, new IT to suit a new generation, new transport systems, insulation, and all those other things that will guarantee that we have a functioning economy in the future.
But intangible things too, like better education, better skills, better healthcare, better research on how we can survive the illnesses that we are going to face as we get older, and investment in long-term productive capacity.
All these things matter because all of them raise incomes and lower costs, and so they expand the base from which pensions can be paid. The intergenerational contract can be respected because there will be the capacity to do it. These things create prosperity. Saving doesn't.
And that's the problem we have. Whilst we continue to focus on saving, we will be pulling money out of the economy, we'll be putting it to unproductive use, we'll be cutting demand, we'll be slowing growth, we'll be risking recession, and ultimately we will shrink the capacity to pay pensioners.
And that's where we are, and that's why I say the vast majority of people don't understand pensions.
So we need to take action to correct this, and thankfully, that's not desperately difficult to do.
One of my suggestions is incredibly straightforward. We should require that 25% of all contributions into UK pension funds should be invested in the creation of productive investments. Only a quarter, let me be clear. I'm letting the City still play with 75% of the money, although heaven knows why. But, in exchange for the tax reliefs that are given on pension contributions, which are incredibly costly to the UK government and amount to more than £70 billion a year, there should be a payback, which is the creation by pension funds of new productive capacity in our economy.
And if the private sector refuses to do that, then the government should do so instead, creating funds for investment inside our own economy, which we could choose between. For example, we could choose an East Anglian fund, a Welsh fund, a Scottish fund, a northeast fund, whatever else it might be. Or perhaps a health fund. But, we should be ensuring that if the private sector will not deliver growth, then the state will, because we have to be able to afford pensions in the future, and if we don't invest, and the UK has an incredibly low investment rate, we won't be able to do that. And the reason why we have such a low investment rate is precisely because we have pensions run by the private sector, and it doesn't understand what it's doing.
The state must take the lead .
We must rethink pensions now to secure long-term well-being. If we don't, we're in the deepest, darkest trouble.
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I have two comments: firstly the current pensioners population totally fail to get this and many have a sense of entitlement and are quite happy for the current workforce to work longer and longer to maintain a standard of retirement living that the younger generation knows will not exist for them. And secondly the idea of the current shambles of a government effectively leading such reform terrifies me. And I speak as a woman who has seen the retirement age rise seven years in my working life and is now over the age I thought I would have retired at, knowing there are not enough younger workers to maintain the triple lock for much longer.
Much to agree with
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Given that Pensions get tax relief why not divert the tax relief directly into one of these investment funds whether the fund manager likes it or not?
OK its not the 25% you have recommended in most cases but its quite simple and understandable.
Agree with all.
Problem: the politicos and the “pension fund managers” have no idea regarding investments in building/making stuff – they are “managers” who are generally employed (or elected) cos they are “a safe pair of hands”. Mostly they hand over dosh to big fat companies mostly interested in milking the system.
Begs the question: how to break out of the rut. If the Uk can’t/won’t then I see societal breakdown coming down the track.
There is no lack of entreprenurialism in the UK – the problem is connecting those that can with those that have the £££££.
The problem with the pension ‘system’ is everyne makes a nice little cut for doing nothing of much value
Thank you for trying to shift the balance back. I have always thought of tax/NI as people doing paid work now making provision for people not in paid work now. It’s a universal shared system of looking after each other.
But our problem is the shift in our demographics with a growing elderly population living longer and with declining birth rates a much smaller working population. The current solution of keeping delaying retirement of the current working population to pay for existing retirees is not sustainable or fair.
One of the most common misconceptions that I come across about our pensions, is the idea that as people paid, via NI, that is where their pension comes from. They paid in to the system, and when they retire, their contribution — what they paid, is what pays their pension.
My answer to this, (which often does not go down well!), is that the contributions that people were making in the past, were less. That is because over time, we have inflation, and income growth. Inflation will frequently get ahead of income growth, and, let’s be honest, most working people are typically playing catch up or get left behind. Every year, whatever our income is, we require more money just to stand still.
The NI contributions that people pay today are far higher than when I started out in work. If I was drawing a pension based on my NI contribution over the years, I’d be on the streets and penniless, within ten years. I have not paid enough in to keep up with the inflation that the system creates. Only those who have been on very good salaries over the years might be an exception to this. And in many ways, even if someone has worked for fifty years, in say a below national average salary job, they will not have paid enough via NI to fund them for say, 20–30 years of pension. Let’s not forget, that in 20-30 years time, inflation, year-on-year, will carry on. The cost of everything will be far higher than it is today. I dread to think, given the way the current neoliberal system works, what the cost of those things we need will be.
Pensions for most, NI, public, or private, will not keep up. And given that we are living longer, average age expectancy will continue to increase over time as well.
To complicate matters further, we have the fertility crisis. Will there be enough younger people to pay future pensions?
The neoliberal answer to this is to raise the pension retirement age, and to force people into private pension schemes, which often put the money in more speculative investments. Good luck on that one.
Politicians will never explain things this way. They are reluctant, or too ignorant, to tell the truth, as explained in your video.
I think that the ageing population, combined with the fertility crisis, are just two of the ticking time bombs ahead. Not a question of if they happen. They are happening, and neoliberalism does not have an answer to it. It is largely responsible for the crisis and is making it worse.
Thanks and much to agree with
Either your agreeing with the chancellor or what you are suggesting is different from her plans to get pension schemes to invest in private equity and infrastructure.
I would genuinely like to know
But also as someone who knows far more then is healthy about pensions your description in macro terms on found enlightening it’s much appreciated
She is asking for investment in private equity – just another form of saving.
I am asking for investm,ent and wuld propose a tight taxonomy to defoine what it is.
Why have a personal allowance for non-working pensioners at all. The money on the way ‘in’ as it were was above the personal allowance while they were working and exempted from tax, so they should not get the personal allowance tax exemption on the way out.
This is part of the reason why we have a gerontocracy and inter-generational resentment. That and the deliberalisation of planning.
You do realise all pensions are taxable and private pensions are invariably subject to a charge, don’t you?
Yes. That doesn’t detract from my point though because they are currently taxable only on the amount above the personal allowance.
When you pay ‘in’ to the schemes it’s tax free, and no-one in their right mind currently working and earning less than the personal allowance is paying in to a pension or an amount that takes them below that. So you gain twice when you pay in. You only pay tax on the outturn on what is above the personal allowance, which will have risen due to indexation in normal times. A further bonus to pensions over people who spend all their incomes.
For most pensioners now (and I know not all) the state pension roughly equals the personal allowance.
So you are still not making a relevant point, I think.
It is utterly untrue of you to claim that the personal allowance now is the same as it was over the duration of the contributions.
Seriously, whose side are you on here, because it seems to me that you are ignoring the financial benefits from the increase in the PA over time long term, and you also ignore that you can escape 25% of the tax charge on many pensions, and also that you can pay in escaping 20% but pay 0% on the way out, as well as 40% on the way in and 20% on the way out (20% on the amount over the PA of course which should be nil if in receipt of a pension which exceeds it).
We will have to agree to differ, but I doubt your good faith in regard to intergenerational inequality.
I am aware of all this – and talk about it extensively, so please do not be gratuitously offensive.
But I also get my facts right and you did not.
I still think that my proposal for National Pension Fund for post independence Scotland is the long term solution to the issues you have set out. The purpose is 2 fold – create a national DB pension scheme and a fund to invest directly in infrastructure and business, providing equity in active partnerships. The basic design is based on a pay as you go model where contribution rates are set so that contribution income is the primary source of cash flow to pay pensions and cover opex.
Establishing a NPF could be done through legislation to introduce mandatory auto enrolment of all new workers from a NPF day 1. None of this cohort will retire for 40 years or more so the fund will grow exponentially as no pensions will be drawn from it. If 70000 workers start work each year, average earnings are £20000 and the contribution rate is 15% the fund would grow to £172bn after 40 years. This fund can be used to invest productively to create the future productive capacity of the economy so that everyone’s needs can be met
Once up and running existing workers can be offered the opportunity to transfer in and convert DC pensions into rights to a DB pension when they retire.
There is a lot more to it than this but there is only room here for a brief outline.
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I may be being incredibly stupid, but if benefits pay back to the government via the multiplyer effect, does this not also hold true of state pensions? I understand, I think, that private pensions are different, and buying and selling of shares is not creating wealth via investment in the economy. So is it only private pension savings which need to be invested in actual infrastructure?
State pensions by and large work – as I say in the video
Private pension withdraw money from circulation for no benefit – that is where the issue is