Robert Reich has written this today:
In late 2023, NHS England awarded Palantir a £330 million contract to build a cloud-based Federated Data Platform (FDP). The platform is intended to integrate data from up to 240 NHS trusts and 42 Integrated Care Systems through AWS/Microsoft cloud services, although so far only about 120 trusts have signed up and apparently fewer than 45 hospital trusts were fully live by the end of 2024. Some health authorities, like Greater Manchester and Berkshire Healthcare, have expressed their disquiet about this system.
So do I.
Why are we paying a fortune to Palantir when, as Robert Reich says:
The danger inherent in Palantir's AI-powered super database on all Americans is connected to the vast wealth and power of those associated with the corporation, and their apparent disdain for democratic institutions.
We're allowing him - paying him - to do the same thing here, and the risks are the same.
This man opposes democracy, and our government is providing him with the funds to do so.
Why, oh why, oh why?
This recent article in the i newspaper might be of interest.
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I was going to suggest Palantir as a topic for discussion on this blog, but you have already seen the data. For decades now, governments have been very wary in using force to control their populations. Gone are the days of incidents like Peterloo. It seems that digital technology, was sold as something that would set us free, will soon become a way to quietly and unobtrusively shackle us. As for Thiel, he is a despicable human being, and the worst possible person to have in the position he is in. He has no understanding of the need for diffusion of power, he’s like a child not understanding why there are boundaries. He displays his lack of wisdom most clearly in his proposed love of Tolkien, the works of which he clearly didn’t understand.
Why oh why?
Because we do not have democratic control over government.
The executive have absolute power to do as they like.
The civil service take easy, statist, approaches.
Because Thiel promises to make the complexities of running things for our weak and lazy politicians (who are propped up by wealthy donors, and don’t really have to work hard or do a good job) simple. That means no arguments about tax, budgets, well less of them anyway – makes life for the lazy sods easier.
That’s why, essentially.
On top of that, Thiel is also opening up data for other companies to exploit and offer ‘solutions’. Palantir now have a tradeable resource in your personal data, but our politicians will think that that is a benefit, not an exploitation, ‘cos its all about you – sucker!!
Thiel and those who will benefit are natural monopolists. The idealistic nature of the early tech pioneers has been used to gloss over the issue of who owns the platforms and potential for monopolism – monopolism is exploitation. And as I think Shoshana Zuboff has pointed out, it is now too late. We’ve been had.
This is a perfect storm of hyper-individualisation meeting monopolistic goals.
Oh well……………..
As convincingly demonstrated in Mariana Mazzucato’s and Rosie Collington’s book the Big Con through apparent spending cuts (there wasn’t a cut in total expenditure), austerity and hollowing out capacity and capability we have become dependent on entities such as Palantir.
There is no question it could be done within the government or, at least, done by a UK-owned company (on an open-book commercial model). But no! Time after time we are suckered into using organisations such as Palantir, Serco and the other CONsultants on the basis they – the private sector – provide value for money, create efficiencies, etc., when it is clearly obvious that there is absolutely no evidence to support these claims / decisions.
We are concerned about Chinese spyware, etc., why, when the evidence is quite overwhelming, do we not consider US organisations such as Palantir in the same light?
Palantir should be stopped.
This is actually a really good explanation as to what Palantir are after. The NHS is a treasure trove of medical information, one that the government has no interest in unlocking, despite it’s research benefits to the world. They have been told how to use the data, we did it during the pandemic, but they would rather a private company did it, not caring about the implications. It’s out data, it should be protected as our rights and our bodies, but government doesn’t care about either.
Just replying to my own post to add context to my statement that we already have ways to use our NHS data. The government saying “there is no other way” is a lack of imagination, will or a lie.
https://pluralistic.net/2024/03/08/the-fire-of-orodruin/#are-we-the-baddies
This explains it better than I could, and with further links to follow.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2025-04-30a.361.0&s=THiel#g361.2
There are a dozen mentions of Peter Thiel on this website.
He is apparently rescuing us from an NHS that makes us sick.
We have given it to him because he paid our MPs. Now he has control of all our information and can do with it what he will.
I think I have handed in 4 forms to my GP to say that I don’t want my information shared to anyone who is not connected to my medical needs. Every time anything changes you have to send a new one.
He has his hands on the world’s richest datasets now, and to hell with us.
One reason not to support AI.
I found out last week that Durham NHS uses Palantir’s system. We weren’t told so or asked if that was what we wanted. I discovered I couldn’t get on the online services at my GPs as the system had changed. The website is now SystmOnline.tpp-uk.com, the system set up by Frank Hester, the man who paid the tories £5million just before the last election. He’s the man who said that looking at Diane Abbott made him feel that he hated all black women and that someone should shoot her.
So our health information is owned by either Thiel or Hester. Take your pick.
The Steward of Gondor went mad looking into the Palantir and it was the cause of Saruman’s downfall
Indeed…
The UK governments are stupid believing the garbage fed to them by Palantir and others about improving services.
It’s all about taking others data and the tech bros using it solely for their commercial benefit/gain.
Plus the UK bending the knee to US pressure of don’t be nasty to our tech companies or we will tax your companies who operate in the US and make life very difficult.
On 22 January 2024 Palantir’s web site proudly announced it had concluded a commercial deal with the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) to use AI to more accurately target IDF victims in Gaza. As the IDF have hit so many children, we might reasonably assume that Palantir has facility the deliberate targeting by Isreal of Palestinian children victims
Can you provide the link for that please?
It requires one, please, because until you provide if that claim is unproven.
https://www.business-humanrights.org/es/%C3%BAltimas-noticias/palantir-allegedly-enables-israels-ai-targeting-amid-israels-war-in-gaza-raising-concerns-over-war-crimes/
There is an article Palantir’s own website about the deal as well. They say it’s to provide military intelligence. I don’t think it provides details specifically to target children, they are probably easy enough to kill without sophisticated AI technology sadly…
Thanks
I think we know who we are dealing with.
Liberty, who partnered with the i in this investigation, include that detail in their own article.
“In recent years Palantir has drawn criticism for providing software to the Israel Defense Forces for its offensive in Gaza.”
https://libertyinvestigates.org.uk/articles/uk-police-working-with-controversial-tech-giant-palantir-on-real-time-surveillance-network/
Strangely, the i doesn’t mention it. I wonder why?
Why, oh why, oh why?…….all those cosy meetings and meals @ expensive restaurants, tickets to the opera, tickets to footy games, nice clothes, hols (gee these Brit politicos are cheap)
Why, oh why, oh why?…….collect all that information… on UK people & kept in US controlled data storage (the cloud – nice, white & fluffy & oh so innocent)
Why, oh why, oh why?…….is the nice Mr Thiel doing this so cheaply he is such a nice man kind to animals and children.
It is always interesting to see politicos & citizens willingly going along with enslavement.
Don’t Mr. Theil’s chosen ones and allies include T Bliar, P Mandleson, W Streeting and D Jones.
Absolutely no conflicts of interest whatsoever; and it is so heartening to have those most in the position of pulling the political strings in the UK having the best interests of the UK population at the forefront of their actions with no commercial interes whatsoever.
Not sure the citizens did go willingly along with this – it’s more that the state, in the form of Tory and Labour, simply ignored the protests of the citizens. We were actually given an opt-out of sorts, but assumed to have opted in if we didn’t exercise it. The opt-out was, however, I think, limited to data held by GPs – and GPs were supposed to send us a letter or provide some other form for us to opt out. I opted out, but as far as I could see, it only protected GP-held data and I didn’t see anything in it to suggest that it extended to data held by the NHS.
“AI Overview
It’s not currently possible to directly opt-out of your data being shared with Palantir UK specifically through the National Data Opt-Out system, as the NHS has stated. The National Data Opt-Out primarily allows individuals to control whether their health data is used for research and planning purposes outside of direct patient care. While the opt-out may limit the extent of data sharing within the NHS Federated Data Platform (FDP) managed by Palantir, it doesn’t offer a specific opt-out for Palantir’s involvement.
Here’s a more detailed explanation:
National Data Opt-Out:
This system allows individuals to choose whether their confidential patient information can be used for purposes beyond their individual care and treatment, such as research and planning.
Palantir and the FDP:
Palantir has a contract to run the NHS Federated Data Platform (FDP).
No direct opt-out for Palantir:
The National Data Opt-Out does not provide a specific mechanism to prevent your data from being accessed or used by Palantir through the FDP.
Potential limitations:
While the National Data Opt-Out may limit the extent of data sharing within the FDP, it’s not designed to offer a direct opt-out from Palantir’s involvement.
To manage your data sharing preferences, you can:
1. Visit the NHS website:
Go to nhs.uk/your-nhs-data-matters or use the NHS app to make your choice regarding data sharing for research and planning.
2. Contact NHS England:
You can also manage your choice by phone, email, or post via the manage your choice page.
3. Understand the limitations:
Be aware that the National Data Opt-Out primarily affects data used for research and planning, and may not fully prevent your data from being accessed or used within the FDP. ”
It would appear to be a breach of GDPR, but I expect there is some loophole in something one will have acknowledged during GP or hospital treatment that they will exploit to say you gave away all rights to your data to everyone including Palantir.
Its already far worse than you think.
Palantir want to link to Social Security data. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/08/palantir-lobbied-uk-disabilities-minister-software-benefits-fraud
They are now working with the police. https://libertyinvestigates.org.uk/articles/uk-police-working-with-controversial-tech-giant-palantir-on-real-time-surveillance-network/
And the Government won’t tell us anything about the contracts. https://democracyforsale.substack.com/p/uk-government-withholding-details
Tbis is decidedly scary.
“Indeed, even PayPal’s co-founder Peter Thiel told the Free Press in December:
“If the online forms of your money are frozen, that’s like destroying people economically, limiting their ability to exercise their political voice.” ”
Mentioned by Baroness Fox in the lords.
As I mentioned in my post above, it was only a matter of time before technology was used to enslave us. Step out of line, all your assets frozen. A digital ring fence around all of us, and there is no will or understanding in government of the need to stop this. Foxglove took legal action to stop Palantir from having our NHS data in 2023, yet here we are. This situation scares me more than any other of the many threats to our future.
Baroness Fox is the sister of Fiona Fox, who is CEO and Founder of the Science Media Centre. Which anyone with ME/CFS will tell you is nothing to do with Science!
https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Science_Media_Centre
https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/technology/nhs-england-pauses-ground-breaking-ai-project-following-gp-data-concerns/
Is this why Streeting wants to get rid of NHSE?
At least we know GPs are worried about the privacy of our data.
I don’t recalled giving permission for my sensitive (“Special category) medical data being transferred to another company. In fact the General Data Protection Regulations (GDPR) specifies:
“In order to lawfully process special category data, you must identify both a lawful basis under Article 6 of the UK GDPR and a separate condition for processing under Article 9. These do not have to be linked. There are 10 conditions for processing special category data in Article 9 of the UK GDPR.” Source: https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/lawful-basis/a-guide-to-lawful-basis/special-category-data/
I would NEVER have allowed the data to be transferred to a third party, and the last company on the planet I would want to have it is Palantir.
In short, because the amassing, collocating, integration, cross-referencing and analysis of citizen data into a single surveillance data system is essential to the corporatisation of the state and the public sector and for the delegation of government to corporate CEOs.
The Silicon Valley loons have long advocated for the replacement of democracy with a corporate structure to govern society, with them at the top of course. I think being surrounded by yes men makes them think that corporations are actually efficient and effective.
Apologies if you have already seen this.
https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-news-that-nhs-england-has-awarded-a-contract-to-operate-the-nhss-new-federated-data-platform-fdp-to-join-up-patient-data/
Why ? because the arse-licking neoliberal sock puppets will be well rewarded, as was Osborne, Blair, Sunak, and the rest of these mendacious mandarins.
I might be wrong about this, but seems the only answer that we’ve ever found to reduce these pernicious robber barons, across time and culture, has always been finding our solidarity. Hence why they fund and fuel identity politics and anything that divides us from each other.
Participatory forms of democracy? Would that be a way to solidarity and a way out of this joyless Neoliberal shitshow.
It would be good to have a focus on how we can share power effectively so we can better distribute economic resource.
I’m just home after hospitalisation of over 3 weeks so I’ll be brief: I’m so glad NHS Scotland developed its own patient record system (about 25 years ago) and wasn’t drawn into Palantir’s spidery web. I’m also enraged that (under Lobbying rules) Westminster gives a free-ride to politicians who accept bribes, or as Westminster describes them “donations”. I had a long think about this in Hospital and will submit a comment on it tomorrow.
Get well, Ken.
The sad thing is, there’s a British based company, funded by a British charity, that’s developed an open source platform (given FREE to the NHS) that’s already been doing this for 40 million patients for almost 10 years, and at an absolute fraction of the cost.