The issues that I have raised with Dan Neidle's tax proposals appear to continue to attract interest. In particular, there are some commentators who seem to be of a neoliberal persuasion, who seem to think that the suggestion that the normal rate of return on capital should be exempted from tax, whether received as in income or gain, is entirely appropriate.
As a result of these comments, and out of curiosity, I went back to read the arguments in the Mirrlees review, published by the Institute for Fiscal Studies in 2011, on why they thought that this was appropriate. I have not revisited the issue for a while, although I recall not making myself very popular with my interventions at its launch event.
The arguments are published over a number of pages in chapter 13 of that review, which is on the taxation of savings. The discussion on capital gains merely refers to that discussion to justify the continuation of the approach with regard to that tax.
Finding a quotation that best summarises the thinking of the authors on this issue, which is consistent with that of Sir James Mirrlees himself, is a little hard because the justification is not terribly focused. However, this might do, from page 284:
The case for exempting the normal return to savings from taxation is likely to depend on, among other factors, the reasons that people save in the first place. Many do so in order to consume at one period of their lifetime rather than another. By sacrificing consumption today, saving is a way of generating future income and, like other forms of investment, there is a case for exempting the normal return. The taxation of the normal return to savings distorts the timing of lifetime consumption and labour supply. A timing-neutral tax system would not create such distortions, and there are a number of tax systems that achieve such neutrality.
This elaboration might also help:
A consumption tax does not create distortions in the timing of consumption, while a comprehensive income tax does. This is because the latter reduces the after-tax rate of return relative to the pre-tax return, and because the rate of return the consumer receives determines the effective price of future versus current consumption. Since one of our objectives is to avoid distorting intertemporal choices, at least for a large fraction of the population, we explore three possible routes to savings taxation that maintain neutrality over when consumption occurs.
I also happened to think that this clarification is important:
In spite of a vast body of research on the appropriate taxation of savings, we recognize at the outset that economic theory does not provide an unequivocal recommendation on the issue of optimal tax design. We, therefore, rely in part on broadly-attractive concepts, such as tax neutrality, in framing our analysis. We view neutrality as a constructive benchmark in understanding the issues surrounding the design of savings taxation. There is potentially a rich array of ways in which individuals differ with regard to saving behaviour based on underlying preferences and opportunities. In the absence of such detailed knowledge, it seems sensible to begin from this benchmark and look for justifications for deviating from it.
What becomes very clear from this discussion is that, in a fashion entirely consistent with most neoclassical/neoliberal economic discussions of taxation, the authors are seeking to ensure that tax should not, in any way, alter the decision-making that might take place in what they presume to be an economically efficient marketplace that does, according to their assumption, optimally allocate resources within society over time.
What most especially amuses me about this is the flawed reasoning. Because, they say, there is no evidence for any tax system being optimal, they assume that what they think should be in existence according to their economic theory is what ought to be in existence: this is the naturalistic fallacy in full force.
To provide support for this suggestion, this is from the introduction to a paper by arch-neoliberal economists Greg Mankiw and others on optimal taxation theory. This draws heavily on the work of Sir James Mirrlees:
We begin with a brief overview of how economists think about optimal tax policy, based largely on the foundational work of Ramsey (1927) and Mirrlees (1971). We then put forward eight general lessons suggested by optimal tax theory as it has developed in recent decades:
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Optimal marginal tax rate schedules depend on the distribution of ability;
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The optimal marginal tax schedule could decline at high incomes;
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A flat tax, with a universal lump-sum transfer, could be close to optimal;
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The optimal extent of redistribution rises with wage inequality;
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Taxes should depend on personal characteristics as well as income;
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Only final goods ought to be taxed, and typically they ought to be taxed uniformly;
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Capital income ought to be untaxed, at least in expectation; and
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In stochastic, dynamic economies, optimal tax policy requires increased sophistication.
Three observations necessarily follow.
Firstly, Dan Neidle and those whose work he builds upon assume that unfettered markets will produce the best outcomes for society so long as they are not interfered with. This is despite the fact that, as they admit, they cannot find certain evidence of this, and despite the glaringly obvious evidence that this has most definitely not been true for decades, if it ever happened.
Secondly, if they make this assumption despite the very obvious evidence that it is appropriate, then they are making the profoundly political judgement that the current allocation of resources within society is appropriate, just, and to be perpetuated even if, as is apparent to absolutely any observer, this is both manifestly unfair and produces disastrous economic outcomes, as climate change amongst other things proves. Far from being neutral, as they claim, this assumption is, in fact, massively biased.
Thirdly, those adopting this approach also necessarily make another assumption, which is that government when making use of one of the powers that ultimately evidences its existence, which is the right to impose taxation, must not use political choice when doing so, but must instead reflect market outcomes and presume they are efficient, even though it is glaring obvious that the conditions for such efficiency have never, will never and can never exist. That decision is not, then, rational on their part. It is, instead, another profoundly political judgement that suggests that they do not believe that the government has the right to reallocate resources within a society, with which I profoundly disagree.
It is, I suggest, absolutely vital to understand these foundations of the proposal that Dan Neidle is making because doing so justifies everything that I have suggested about them, which is that they are neoliberal and have every intention of maintaining the existing power structure within society, which is so deeply inequitable. There can, therefore, be no possible justification for the use of these proposals by any government that is concerned with the population of the UK and for a fair allocation of resources within it. They should, instead, be dismissed as the profoundly right-wing dogmatic proposal that they represent, which has the sole purpose of perpetuating existing power and economic and political structures within our society, which is the allegation I have laid against Dan for promoting them.
If you want tax justice, reduced inequality, sound logic, or reasoned argument, Dan Neidle is not the person whose tax policy proposals you need to consider.
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Excellent.
I note the lack of analysis of power structures in a lot of these ‘justifications’ which I am sure would have me labelled as a Marxist (and I would not be bothered either).
Calling the accrual of uncollected tax monies simply benign is reductionist beyond stupidity, indeed it is worse than that – it is negligent and as we know imperils democracy as the funds can find their way into and undermine democracy.
I stick to my guns on this because to donate significantly, you have to be rich and you can only be enriched further by not paying a fair tax, or picking up juicy contracts from the politicians you fund or benefiting from privatisations that politicians initiate.
It is a self-rewarding cycle.
As I suspected there is no good basis for the principle that the “normal” return on capital (or anything else) should be free of tax. It is in fact an assumption based on theoretical prejudice or aimply an assertion of what the authors want.
Where does the axiom that “Capital income ought to be untaxed, at least in expectation” come from?
It seems to me that taxing investment returns at least theoretically distorts investment decisions in the same way that taxing labour income distorts employment sections. But at least investors have capital to call upon to pay the tax, and can put their capital to work rather than themselves working to eat.
The neoliberals should not worry. The poor know all about “intertemporal choices”.
– Should we eat today or tomorrow?
– Should we put the heating on today or tomorrow?
– Should we visit the warm space with the soup & roll free lunch, today or next week?
– If we don’t eat today and tomorrow, I can afford to give the children (even the third one) something to eat when they visit on the weekend.
But of course, such intertemporal choices are trivial, when compared to the “difficult decisions” made by those with surplus income, as to whether they spend it now or later.
(Apologies, I tend to get sarcastic when I am really angry, and the stuff you quoted made me VERY angry, but it motivated me to!)
Your anger is justified
…or where to put their money – and political funding comes into this too I would argue because that is just another ‘investment’ with a return.
They fall at the first hurdle. I’d love to see a functioning market unhindered by govt intervention: no regulation, no laws, no way to enforce contracts, no trustworthy currency, no lender of last resort for banks, no anti-union legislation. It might last about a second. But I’m guessing they don’t mean that, because neoliberalism is nothing more than political propaganda. By “free market” they mean “iron-fist regulation in their favour”.
Did you say shouldn’t be accepted by any UK govt? In that case Neidles proposals will form the basis of tax policy for the next three.
Lets face it, accepting bad advice, in particular from the Tufton Street mob, has very much become part of govt policy making since the 1980’s, with Thatcher influenced directly by the very earliest ones.
Oh, and Hayek. Let’s give due credit for the current mess to the idiots who’s pontifications created it.
Not a shred of empirical evidence, simply rhetoric in favour of the rich.
Warren Buffet, the Sage of Omaha, very rich but lives a relatively modest lifestyle and has argued that his class (the class that won) should pay more tax. As may be well known some years ago he researched the tax rate some of his employees paid compared to what he paid. Since much of his income was from gains and dividends he paid around 17% vs 35%.
According Sáez & Zucman the richest Americans now pay less in income tax than ordinary workers for the first time in a hundred years. We also know that real wages have stagnated for a couple of decades while those at the top have captured a greater share of the cake.
“Fairness” for all isn’t in Neidle’s vocabulary.
Thanks
Richard,
From what you have said building up large amounts of unspent money isnt a good thing.
Plus of course there is that fall out in terms of things like ‘buy to let’ when we have too much money looking for a return.
Might I suggest instead that what is needed is a range of products that are designed to allow those on less than average or average income to build up sufficient funds that they are able to do things like buy and replace their home contents and cars without credit, maintain their homes, provide for their retirement and build up a cushion against the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune etc.
Anything above that and the returns are taxable
ISAs are more than adequate for that.