I am angered by commentary on two tier policing, some of which has turned up in comments posted on this blog that I have deleted.
The allegation that there has been two tier policing in the UK is false.
The claim is based on the suggestion that the police, politics and media have been soft on Black Lives Matter and Gaza protests but tough on the far-right.
First, I do not agree with the suggestions about BLM and Gaza protests. Many politicians have called the latter hate marches, when they oppose a well documented and now legally described genocide.
BLM marches opposed police violence against people of colour. We have institutionally racist police forces in the UK: official reports say so. Profoundly unwise politicians seem to want to deny this.
The police are also I misogynist, and we saw the heavy handed policing of those pointing that out too. There has been political and too much media denial on this too.
So, all these protests were about:
- Upholding human rights
- Respecting the dignity of all people
- Rejecting violence
- Maintaining the rule of law
In contrast, far-right rioting has been tackled by the police as criminality intent on causing harm to particular people, promoting racism and damaging property.
From the intent through to the action there is nothing that requires that comparison be made between Gaza and BLM protests, which have been legal, peaceful (with rare exceptions usually resulting from deliberate provocation from the far right) and the rioting of the last few days.
To make the claim that these actions are alike and should have been treated in the same way is to deliberately provoke misinformation to encourage division, hate and racial discrimination in our society. But then, that is what far right politicians do.
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There is too much sulphur in the air at the moment perhaps to discuss this rationally.
Maybe we all need to calm down? Including me.
All I have seen from footage of the police is a consistent approach whether a Gaza type protest or from what I have seen elsewhere post Southport.
I have seen a lot of restraint from the police but occasionally the odd bad apple in the force getting carried away.
The violence that has accompanied the post Southport protests I have seen seems to be the exception rather than the rule. And still the police tend to try and absorb and contain.
We know what could happen next? Water cannons? Rubber bullets? Horse charges? Do we need to emulate the 1970’s and early 1980’s in the ‘British Isles’?
What is reprehensible however and ill judged is what comes out of the mouths of our so-called political leaders. They seem caught up in it all rather than trying to bring us together.
And maybe the reason why is that right now we are not together. And that our so-called ‘leadership’ are the source of this?
If we accept that, then we are in a really bad place.
And I think that that is the truth at the moment.
They can arrest as many of the rioters as they like. But until the politicians themselves look closer to home to curb certain behaviour, I don’t think things will change – funders included.
I’m also not happy that parliament has not been recalled.
Is this because they are scared that the Farage they enabled will open his trap? Well if he does, all they have to do is do what they did to Dawn Butler.
Note to politicians: for God’s sake take your role seriously and stop playing games. Set an example for once why don’t you?
The violent riots by racist mobs organised by neo nazis represent a threat to our democracy. They are intended to terrorise the Muslim community and asylum seekers. There can be no justification for such criminal behaviour.
I
The scenes of violence are quite shocking.
Contrast this to the peaceful massive pro Palestinian protests which have numbered in the hundreds of thousands.
The British media are fanning the flames of the situation by their portrayal of the events.
My grandfather was a Pow at a Nazi slave labour camp near Auschwitz and he always spoke to me about the dangers of racism unchecked and unchallenged where you end up with the gas chambers.
Those trying to justify this violence are reprehensible.
I think the far right riots are precisely timed and directed to stop the increasing support British people are displaying for Gaza and against Zionist Israel and its genocide.
My understanding is that certain far right, extremist leaders who are not in the country as cities burn are in the pay of Israel in order to do just this, and to frighten Muslims into quietening down their protests in support of their own brothers and sisters.
In my own profession I received a warning last night about a planned ‘action’ outside an asylum welcome centre in Oxford this evening. An anti-fascist demo is gathering at the same time. A recipe for trouble.
And a deliberate one.
@Roseanne Edwards
“I think the far right riots are precisely timed and directed to stop the increasing support British people are displaying for Gaza and against Zionist Israel and its genocide.”
You may well be right. The riots are obviously well organized and the organizers must have some aims in mind. However if this is one of the aims then I think it is a sign of panic. It is certainly not well thought out and will fail. It may even have the opposite effect to what the organizers intend.
There is two tier policing plus some other problems. Admission: knew a chief constable – one of the better ones.
Problem 1: police are failing to address criminality that affects most people. Example: talking to a UK person who resported that some local locks ups were being used to hide/store stolen motorbikes (he knew cos he used one of the lock ups for his car). Police response – zero. There is plenty of other anecdotal info suggesting that what seems to the police minor stuff is not attended to.
Problem 2: under LINO 1 the police shut many small stations. As the cheif constable noted to me: big stations allow police that are not pulling their weight to “hide”. It also disconnects the police from the community – & in turn a failure to understand what matters to communities..
Problem 3: how does the police set priorities? The public hearing into undercover plods suggested that in some cases they are a law unto themselves.
Problem 4: a long term loss of confidence in the police by people that I would call “conservative with a small c” – dirven I would suggest by Problem 1.
Problem 5: apparent police immunity to wrong doing – it is very rare that plods that do bad things get properly disciplined – more often it is early retirement.
So not just two tier policing – but also … “then” the police and “us” – who are often regarded as “the enemey”.
We have no police station in Ely now
We have aocvla team – based in Cambridge, which is meaningless
Adding to this comment:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/06/uk-police-arrest-two-pro-palestine-activists-under-organised-laws
Two people have been arrested under “organised crime laws” because they attacked a company’s premises that were making & selling weapons to Israel that are used to murder women and children.
As Voltaire remarked more than 270 years ago: “it is dangerours to be right on matters on which the established authorities are wrong”
Which leaves the open question: who makes these decisions (on prosecutions), do they sleep well at night & what do they see in the mirror in the morning?
@MikeParr
“Which leaves the open question: who makes these decisions (on prosecutions), do they sleep well at night & what do they see in the mirror in the morning?” –
The likes of former DPP Keir Starmer?
Its been suggested that the most effective weapon against Yaxley Lennon might be HMRC.
I would certainly suggest that a good look at who’s behind a lot of this right wing activism, in particular where the money is coming from then placing it in the public domain might be interesting to say the least.
Well, it worked against Al Capone.
He couldn’t prove the source of his income and was sentenced to 11 years for tax evasion spending most of it in Alcatraz where his mental health declined due to syphilis.
Funding Yaxley-Lennon:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/07/tommy-robinson-global-support-brexit-march
And use DeSmog to follow up what is known about the named – American – funders.
https://www.desmog.com/
From Simon Wren-Lewis today in his blog Mainly Macro
Ensuring that prosperity and public service provision in the country as a whole does not stagnate compared to other countries also helps. Unfortunately, even achieving all of these things does not ensure that ring wing populism will not prosper.
This is because right wing populism is increasingly seen by particular monied elites as a means of obtaining political power and financial benefits. This is most transparent in the US, where billionaires seem quite happy to openly support a candidate for President that tried to overturn an election he lost and a political party that appears beholden to that candidate and indifferent to democratic norms.
And he finishes “funding for UK parties increasingly comes from very wealthy individual donors.”
just, if not more, serious is the very wealthy trying to influence what information the public receives by their funding of media outlets that support right wing populism.
I think I agree Simon
Where is the money coming from?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/why-are-us-pro-israel-groups-boosting-a-far-right-anti-muslim-uk-extremist/
Very obviously becoming an MP is now regarded as a meal ticket rather than a vocation! Doing away with FPTP and out-lawing the whipping of MP’s would help stop the continuing deterioration of British democracy. Reform of political funding from private to public is another antidote.
No entry zones now being set up by racist rioters:-
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/far-right-race-riot-uk-b2591803.html
Under-funded police forces can’t cope with this tactic if it spreads and the army will have to be called in to use more aggressive tactics to deal with the fascist thugs.
This is very worrying as the threat is very real, and deeply intimidatory
I wonder how the apologists who claim “they’re not racists, they just have legitimate concerns” might like to explain how stopping a car and asking the driver “are you white?” is not racist.
They can’t
Thank you.
How about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Motorman, my RAF father’s first deployment in Northern Ireland?
I am not sure you are the right person to talk objectively about a matter of this kind. By your own admission you make everything political and this is bound to impair your judgement.
Everything is political
The person who does not know that is the last person to make this judgement
Not sure if this will display well, Richard, but this is a screen grab by one of the OSINT people I follow for info on the war in Ukraine.
This is simply a sample of the many Russian agitators and bots aiding the far right protests:
https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1820595619410374859/photo/1
Thank you, Ivan.
As per my comments here and on Naked Capitalism, the funding for and online proxies for the E(&J)DL is Zionist (including some of the same for Starmer) and neocons like the Mercer family and Pompeo in the US. This is why nothing is done about Robinson.
It was Suela Braverman calling the Gaza protests ‘Hate Marches’ that alerted me to the protest marches in the first place as I am not on any Watsapp groups. I spent the next three days constructing a banner that focused on peace, using sheet cork to depict an olive tree with the words ‘Freedom’ and ‘Peace’ leaching up into the tree. That iconic banner has been pictured many times since then. Although I had heard from close friends of police conduct in the past, directed against anti-war demonstrators, I felt so passionately about the horrific situation in Gaza I was compelled to join the next march.
The police overreaction in Bristol at peaceful protests after Sarah Everad was murdered were a stark warning that I might face trouble considering braverman’s unwarranted outburst. Despite my particular vulnerabilities post stage four kidney cancer, I calculated I could make the entire route in my wheelchair. The only violence on the day was from far right thugs who professed to be ‘protecting the Cenotaph’ but in reality, whipped up by Braverman, were spoiling for a fight. Thankfully we never got close enough for them to bother us. I think the MET, already on notice for bad conduct, tried hard to deploy force where it was needed most to appropriately target violence and vandalism.
Our marchers are not inciting violence against any group of people, we are demanding an immediate end to the carpet bombing of Gaza and UK arms sales to Israel as we support calls for an immediate ceasefire. This is certainly not a ‘hate’ agenda, far from it. I do not find the words ‘From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be Free’ a provocative chant. Most of us feel that the only viable solution for peace will involve a single state where both Jews and Palestinians live in harmony with equal rights. The so-called ‘Two State Solution’ is no longer viable after the continued illegal Israeli settlements in the West Bank; it has become a convenient fig leaf out of touch with reality on the ground.
Although we condemn the conduct of a globally recognized apartheid state conducting its ethnic cleansing of Gaza, we are no threat to Jewish people or even Israelis. I have had a very constructive discussion with an Israeli peace activist who also favours a single truly democratic state. I firmly believe we must keep channels of negotiation open. Many Jewish people join our protest marches as they too are disgusted by the extremes and stated objectives of Far Right Zionism. There is a very distinct group of obviously Hesidic Jews who are always in attendance at some point along our march route, positioned in such a way that all of our protesters can witness their full support.
I must say that during the past 15 Gaza marches I have felt safe and protected by the police on duty. In an effort to make participation more manageable, and not to run over peoples feet, I have led most of these marches in my wheelchair. However, the police are now confident in the knowledge that our protesters will try to police themselves to avoid trouble. Wearing high-vis jackets there are a significant number of volunteer stewards at every Gaza march in order to keep us all on track and as safe as possible. If the police saw any signs of violence, or direct incitement to target any group, I have no doubt that they would intervene and make arrests: I have never seen this.
From the pictures posted online of the far-right ‘protests’ I have not noted any stewards and it appears that there is no attempt to impose any constraints on the conduct of those assembled. When they start to throw projectiles and set fires; of course there will be clashes with police. Whatever the intended message those persuaded to attend have bought into, the totally uncontrolled nature of the Far right protests presents a very obvious problem for police to which they must respond in order to keep people safe.
I absolutely believe in the right to peaceful protest, even when the message is not one that I agree with: as long as it does not incite targeted violence. If your organization fails or deliberately plans, to make any provision within your ranks to control your assembled supporters, then it invites trouble and police push-back. This is not two tier policing, but appropriate policing by necessity. I commend the police for their conduct at this trying time as I am thankful for their protection.
Many thanks
In many ways
Thank you, Kim.
Braverman’s mother hails from the same island as my parents. When my parents migrated 60 years ago, the island was a colony. By the time Braverman’s mother moved here in the mid 1970s, the island was independent and her uncle was high commissioner to London.
Most of the islanders and its diaspora find her difficult to understand, believe and stomach. Her Brexiteer tendencies are anathema, especially as she and I studied here and in France, not uncommon for islanders and its diaspora as we are multilingual. Had she grown up on the island, it’s more than likely that she would have attended a convent school, like most of my female relatives.
One wonders if her views are informed by her father, part of Britain’s settler foot soldiers in Africa and including their odd way of pronouncing Kenya, and where she grew up and the community into which she married, including where her husband served.
This said, communalism isn’t unknown in her mother’s community, tension that required troops from the mother country to be deployed in the run up to independence and can be traced to Gandhi’s* comments about Africans (sic) and exploitation of such division by a British governor whose great granddaughter married David Cameron. *Readers may recall the train scene in the film of the same name. Gandhi left what became the Union of SA in 1910 and stopped on the island en route to India and asked an associate, Manilall Doctor, to stay on and organise their community, which he did and separately from the multi-ethnic trade union movement then building.
A bit of imperial history for this community.
Very much agree – some of the Gaza marches Ive been on had tens of thousands – far exceeding the few hundreds in these riots – there were relatively few police but hundreds of stewards – and the police were pretty relaxed. The marches are noisey and passionate – but overwhelmingly peaceful – which the police I asked confirmed as their view.
Who is promoting this ‘two tier policing; udea ? – surely its ‘appropriate policing’ .?
These are nothing less than race riots. Imagine the response if these were black and Asian men – and/or Muslims – threatening, violently attacking and torching Jewish synagogues or Christian churches or white communities. Or if Asian men were putting up road blocks and refusing entry to white drivers. The violent attacks would instantly be called race riots.
This is no different. It is racism. Violent racism. It is absolutely NOT terrorism, although it is terrifying. The underlying motive is, on the face of it, very different. (It may subsequently prove to be terrorism if it can be proved that the incitement comes from external sources). After the horrifying murders in Southport, the first question asked by people like Farage was “Is this man known to the Security Services?” swiftly followed by “Is he an illegal immigrant?” Had the alleged perpetrator been a young white Welsh boy, neither of those questions would have been asked. The very questions reveal a racist mindset.
Those sort of inflammatory questions – and there were many which were similar and highly publicised – played a significant role in the rapid escalation of the violent disorder being committed by the (mostly) far right thugs we are now seeing. I say “mostly” because thugs in general are not fussy about the root causes of violence; they will join any affray for the chance to riot.
I do not believe that there is two tier policing if the comparison is being made between these riots and the pro-Palestine marches. The police seem so far to have acted fairly and responsibly during both. The Met Commissioner refused to go outside the law as it stands in relation to Braverman’s wild comments about “hate marches”, for example.
Race riots they are and race riots they should be called.
The absolutely tragedy is that the horrendous murder of three small girls in Southport has got lost in the noise.
I agree re race rioting
But is the objective is political – and it seems to be – then it can also be terrorism, and I am inclined to that view.
I believe that it’s disinformation which is deliberate spreading of untruths and not misinformation.
I recall being on the Remain protest when 100s of thousands of people marched through London, utterly peacefully giving the police nothing to do. I then happened to be in Westminster when the infamous march for Leave arrived. The scenes in Westminster square were remarkably similar to the current riots – lots of drunk middle aged men spoiling for a fight. The police were there in force, fully equipped. I spoke to some of the police and we compared what was happening to the Remain march. They knew and policed accordingly.
Needless to say the Tory politicians and media were vocal about the Remain march, implying that it was full of trouble makers. They did not have so much to say about the Brexit march. And it’s been much the same with the overwhelmingly peaceful marches in support of Palestine and then the so-called protests against migrants. Little more than racist riots, with a clear trail of evidence leading back to Tory ministers, MPs and their cheerleaders, and what they have been saying over the last 10 years or more. From Sunak down.
Labour should be ruthless in calling them out. Musk and Twitter are a big factor but the problems closer to home are just as important and came long before Musk.
I had a similar experience Robin in that I was on a Remain march near the back which was quiet and peaceful and policed itself, which at Trafalgar Square was followed by a few hundred anti ULEZ ‘protestors’ banging their stupid drums and yelling their heads off with banners accusing Sadiq Khan of all sorts of anti motorist nonsense. I reflected then that those of us on the Remain march were too quiet and reasonable for our own good, because the shouty right whinge grievance warriors on the anti ULEZ march would get far more publicity than us, even though there were vastly more of us than them. And they did.
You’re completely correct about the complicity of the tory party and it’s media client journalists in getting us to the state we are now. Even now I see the loathsome Jenrick is at it repeating the right wing lie about two tier policing. And he comes from a Jewish background so you’d think he might be aware of the dangers of the extreme right instead of encouraging them. The tories are a disgrace, especially those from BAME backgrounds like Sunak, Braverman, Bad Enoch (I can’t resist calling her that) and Patel who’ve pandered to the racist thugs and demonised refugees for years to try to distract us from the mess their rotten party has caused.
Of course social media makes it worse, but this started here, not in the US. And yes, labour should be ruthless in attacking the tories for their record on this, but I bet they won’t. Too obsessed with their own flag shagging to appeal to their precious self-described ‘downtrodden white working class’ voters to show real leadership on this.
As Robert Pennington points out, the sentancing regime looks very two tier. Up to 5 years for entirely peaceful climate protestors, so I wonder whether the thugs involved in these riots are going to get the same, or longer in jail?
Much less, I am sure
After all, environment campaigners are fanatics
Rioters are just trying to kill people
This goes to the top of the Tories and Sunak himself. See this from the FT a year ago. Not exactly a left wing rag.
https://www.ft.com/content/7a98b644-7257-43b7-aa99-fabe618fa894
There are plenty of quotes available from Tory ministers and MPs over recent years. I wonder (as Farage would say) if a Labour MP (or LibDem) could be put up to read some of these quotes out and challenge Sunak. Not much point of stopping fake news if it is already coming from the ‘horses mouth’ – or another orifice…
Thanks
Sentencing for rioting and looting is certainly starting to look very two-tier, in comparison to the climate protesters’ 4/5 years…
I’ve only seem 1 report of a sentence – a teenager pleaded guilty to criminal damage and got, I think 2 months. Of the other reports adults have been remanded in custody to Crown Court, juveniles who have not entered pleas have been granted bail to return to court later in the week.
More interestingly the criminal defence solicitor association have notified the government that they have neither the time nor the resources to attend ‘overnight’ courts and the Criminal Bar Association has also indicated it has no resources to support additional sittings. Both the result of decades of underfunding of criminal defence.
The last is very true
Very interesting Cyndy, but not surprising. A problem caused by the tories, but it’s labour’s job to sort out. How are they going to do that? Rather puts the government’s talk of tough action against these thugs into prespective doesn’t it?
Are they going to keep them on remand for weeks? Drop the charges because there are no defence lawyers? Or get tough with them the way the tories did with peaceful climate protestors and use the draconian anti protest laws brought in by the tories to give them all heavy sentences….in the same prisons that are so overcrowded they’ve had to give early release to score s of prisoners?
Perhaps Reeves could use the Magic money tree to find the funds to provide emergency funding for the legal system, and build internment camps for the thugs/terrorists arrested for their recent actions. Or would that be breaking her precious fiscal rules?
First sentencing begins but we can only relax once we see evidence this government is going after the rich people who are funding the attack on democracy and that includes the press and social media barons. This is unlikely to happen with Scammer & Co revealing the rotten state of our democracy!
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/07/rioter-southport-jailed-far-right
Just seen that myself. So 3 years for a violent rioter who attacked the police physically, which is less than the 5 years handed out to climate activists for trying to organise entirely peaceful non-violent action. Nice to see our politicians have their priorities right then.
So labour party, when are you going to repeal the fascistic legislation brought in by the last government so this doesn’t happen again? And when are you going to pardon these peaceful activists and really go after the social media platforms and right wing propaganda rags that have been pushing Islamophobia and demonisng of refugees for years?
Or are you as Schofield implies too craven to do so? Scared of the DM and Murdoch? How about changing tack from your gutless pre-election stance and implementing Leveson 2 right now?
This disparity is absurd
Peaceful climate protesters pose an existential threat to the neoliberal world order that violent race rioters do not. As the Lord High Executioner said ”Let the punishment fit the crime!”