This is great from Jonathan Pie - with all his usual choice language. It's a month old now, but still worth sharing again in anticipation of this week:
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Pretty well sums it up.
Terrific!
And straight between the eyes.
I like my slice of Pie these days I must admit.
This should be shown in the house of commons before the next pm questions
Should be a Labour Party PPB – brexit is austerity’s brat
Yes – with Corbyn in place of Pie – telling it as it is – it would certainly connect with people.
It is sad that most of the time politicos come out with mealy mouthed shite & the only ones who tell it the way it is, need to swear extensivly to emphasise the point.
Very strange times.
Yep.
He agrees we need creative destruction too. He could have done the same talk in most EU countries, Italy, Spain, Portugal, France, Austria, Hungary, Netherlands, even Sweden to name easy ones! The common factor is they are in the EU!
The EU institutions have hollowed out national government. MPs now see their role as lobbyists to EU institutions. They do not think it is their role to actually make decisions!
How many times have I heard UK Ministers say they will “argue the case in Brussels”? (Especially in the food and agriculture sector).
How can a national government have a housing policy when they have no control over demand?
How can they have a training policy when freedom of movement means they go to the highest bidder? (Yes UK is a net beneficiary here, but it has made the UK dependent)
How can they have an industrial policy when the “state-aid” rules are so restrictive
How can they have a tax policy when EU governments run a competition on tax capture, and the national government are unable to restrict capital movement?
If the EU parliament was a proper parliament, then the public might have felt they had some level of control. But the truth is the levers of power are too distant from the public for them to feel any semblance of power.
Blaming the EU institutions for many woes is validated by the fact that the same symptoms are seen across EU member states, not just the UK!
He would not have done that
And you will note he quite specifically says that the EU is not the issue
I suggest you watch the video by Stephen Fry Peter
As he points out, we can do all the things you suggest necessary, and much better than we could outside the EU where some like and industrial policy are nigh on impossible
And if you think controlling immigration so necessary please do not use our local NHS – because it only functions because of them – and most non-EU which we could control but don’t because there is very gooid reason not to do so
Oh, and on tax – if you’re so sure of what you say why is it that we have a veto on all EU tax policy, which makes complete nonsense of your claim?
And at last the EU parliament functions, unlike ours
I’m sorry Peter, but I will not be posting further nonsense of this sort from you. We might be friends, but such unevidenced and factually incorrect claims are simply embarrassing to post
Interesting when Farage talks about a Conspiracy, the Guardian runs an article on it being anti-Semite as conspiracy is a “anti-Semite trope”. No such question when narrated by Stephen Fry!
Again, Can anyone explain why the same “symptoms” are being seen across the EU?
I argue that it is because the EU makes national governments near powerless, and that the people do not see the EU as under their democratic control.
In what way is the UK government made powerless by Europe?
Or is the malaise that all those governments adopted neoliberal policies and then imposed them on Europe?
@peter dawe, Please give an example of any occasion when our parliament has been in a situation that ‘makes national governments near powerless’?
I spoke to an elderly lady on holiday recently, she voted to leave as we are ruled by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels! Yes, no doubt a quote from B. Johnson.
Are you relying on the Telegraph for ‘facts’ by any chance? They used to have a tagline ‘get the facts, read the Telegraph’, but that was way back in the 70s.
Examples :- I suggest you read my whole post.
Fisheries policy
Migration policy
Agricultural policy
Civil rights, that are tilted to the bad individual, rather than the rights of the general public.
Industrial policy
Some taxation policy
all set by undemocratic European institutions
I hope you don’t think the Council of Ministers is a democratic group!
The council of ministers is at least as democratic as our cabinet
And to suggest we have no control over the issues noted is just wrong.
We completely control tax – the EU follows OECD rules
Most migration is wholly under our control
So are civil rights that vary considerably by EU country
And on and on
Sorry Peter, but you are simply factually wrong time after time after time
Barring maybe some agriculture, and fisheries, partially. In the former Reform is required, and would be anyway in the U.K. I suggest a U.K. fisheries policy might be very grim.
We are in the eye of the storm right now. What I find has often been overlooked about the referendum and the 52% that voted to leave is that a large percentage of these voters will not find their situation is improved by the election of a Boris Johnson or the success of a Farage once we get a hard Brexit. The right wing, libertarian nationalists do not represent them. When you see the Brexiteer elite they are mostly of this ilk. There are few on the left that are heavyweight leavers. Kate Hoey, hardly a heavyweight, is the only one that springs to mind. Corbyn may be wishy washy but he will not get into bed with the libertarian right wingers. So, come hard Brexit a lot of traditionally left vote leave supporters, especially in austerity hit areas are going to be left disappointed and probably the victims of the Singapore lite/Trump puppet economy that we may end up becoming If the likes of Redwood, Rees-Mogg and Farage have their way.
Sometimes in life it is better the devil you know than the one you don’t.
Spot on aside of a fundamental error – he assumes there is, or was, a contract whereby Westminster governs on behalf of the people.
There never was such an animal. They rule, you are subjects, subject to them. 330 years later and you never did do anything about that.
As the Pie correctly notes, Brexit is the cause of nothing, it’s merely a symptom.
Celebrating a non-existent constitution is something in itself, but since that gives them absolute power, it’s no surprise that parliamentarians do that. The real genius has been in convincing you to celebrate it too. Doh.
What is it that none of the UK’s excuses for political parties is offering …? Indeed. Funny that. Or perhaps not.
Human Rights Watch have just released a 115 page report on food poverty in the UK . What was the government’s response ? They dismissed its findings just like they did the UN’s report a little while back. So as far as the government is concerned there aren’t people in this country going hungry because they’ve done this, that and the other to prevent it . Now just think about it for a moment – a group of people spent a considerable amount of time investigating this subject gathering evidence, and then labour to translate that into the form of a report of 115 pages . No mean effort I would suggest. But our government dismisses it just like that . So, were the contents of the report false , was the evidence the report was based upon false . Presumably not , but our government knows better . Is that what we are to conclude ? Just like they know better about every other subject which comes under the scrutiny of a body they do not recognise has any validity to exist, like the UN because they responded the that report in exactly the same way. And they wonder why people have lost trust in institutions . So inured are they to what they deem to be bad news their only response is to dismiss it.
Agreed