I posted this poll on Twitter yesterday, thinking it topical:
Take it as read that I know all the problems with selection bias in Twitter polls, although I suspect that not much of an issue in this case. Then note the result.
I was surprised how many people do not care. The apparent randomness of Easter is, I suspect, fine with those for whom it does not lengthen or reduce the holiday season, and those in education who have to plan around the absurd fluctuation in this date.
Amongst those that do care I was pleased to see an approximate three to one majority in favour of fixing the date, with relatively few vehemently opposed.
So, why did I ask this? There were two reasons. One, is that the person who likes order within me (the J in Myers-Briggs terms) would like there to be a fixed date to assist orderly planning. I do happen to think that would be of considerable benefit to education, tourism and maybe other sectors.
Second, though, there was the desire to simply do this to symbolise the power that the state has to decide on such issues, and not leave them to a mystical tradition that now has little influence in the lives of most people in the country.
I know that Easter is not just a Christian festival; it is also Passover.
And I know that my argument could be suggested to show a lack of respect for those wishing to celebrate those religious festivals.
But, in a multi-cultural country - and we most definitely are that, whatever the likes of Liz Truss and her cohort of followers think - then to pick out the festivals of some faiths rather than others does itself feel discriminatory. It also ignores the non-committed reality of the lives of most people.
So, I feel that this is a case where the state should say that some order for the sake of assisting planning would be of benefit. But I also happen to think that statement of who has to the power to decide would, in itself, by symbolically important.
And it is not as if it would even require legislation. All that it would require would be that the Easter Act of 1928 be brought into use. That set the data of Easter as the first Sunday after the second Saturday in April, meaning it would always fall between April 9 and 15. I am not even being radical when all that I am doing is asking for a 96 year old peace of legislation be brought into use, at last.
It may not seem like a big deal, but power relationships matter, and this one is about the power of the established church, and all the nonsense (as, for example, was seen in the coronation last year) that goes with it. In that case breaking that power of the broader establishment that the established church symbolises does matter. That is why I think the date of Easter - or the spring festival of hope - should be fixed.
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I’m not sure when it started or why but in Scotland the Easter break for schools is always the first 2 weeks in April. If Easter falls outside those weeks we get Good Friday as a public holiday (but not Easter Monday).
It’s not the movement of Easter that’s the issue, it’s the movement of the holidays.
Appropriate
In France too, the Spring holidays for schools are indepedent of the date of Easter (when there is a public holiday on Easter Monday, but not on Good Friday).
To avoid everyone being on the move at the same time, the school holidays are arranged in 3 zones, with over-lapping 2 week breaks covering a total of one month – this year from 15 April to 3 May. Note also that they are referred to as the vacances de ‘printemps’, not ‘paques’, presumably to respect the 1905 law on the separation of church & state (which I find admirable!).
This is what I am aiming for
That was the case even when I was growing up, so at least 40 years ago it was like that in the Borders and still is to this day. However, my brother-in-law recently started teaching over the border (no, not that one!) in Dumfries & Galloway, and they have the last week of March and the first week of April.
If we’re going to fix the date of Easter, please could we also stop this nonsense of changing the clocks twice a year.
I can live with that – as someone who often gets up with the light
The date of Easter was a major point of contention between the Roman church and the Irish / Celtic church. It was finally resolved at the Synod of Whitby in 664 in favour of the Roman Catholic church. The Irish used the Greek method of calculating the date. The Venerable Bede gave it a lot of attention. Writing decades later he disapproved of the Celtic church’s theology but praised their devotion. Irish missionaries spread across northern Europe and some called them the schoolmasters of Europe.
They were coming from the poorer regions of Europe and possibly that was a reason they were more organised around the monasteries which produced the beautiful manuscripts. The Catholic church was more organised around land and power-to an extent being forced into it by the collapse of the Roman Empire and they being the only international organisation.
The Celtic church seems to have given more of a role to women and to meditation. Sadly the Irish catholic church of the 20th century was one of the most reactionary in western Europe but its hold over the Irish Republic appears to have evaporated in the last 50 years.
I have no strong feelings either way.
I always blame the Synod of Whitby for the moving date of Easter but it seems I am wrong it was The Council of Nicea in 325
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_of_the_date_of_Easter
My suggestion is not that we change the date of Easter in a Theological sense but simply the two Bank Holidays.
Worth pointing out of course that the Russian Orthodox Christmas is on the 7th of January because they still use the Julian Calendar so being in line with anyone else doesn’t have to be a big issue.
Given that we have two Bank Holidays in May I suggest the first weekend in April.
Agreed
I think it was Nicea that agreed the method.
Whitby was to determine which Easter to use in England -not a single country at this date. The King of Northumbria had followed the Celtic customs but his wife, from Kent followed the Roman and she was celebrating Easter while her husband was still in Lent, He was determined to have the same date and was persuaded that he should get in line with most of Europe. (Some things don’t change ) No doubt there was a Scottish and Irish desire to keep the old ways and set up a United Keltic Independence Party.
It took a century or two for them to fall in line.
Reminds me of a joke:
Which television statistician is best loved by fascists.
Tutto Nello Stato
If a fixed date for Christmas works, no reason why Easter should not be a fixed date to celebrate Spring coming in the same way that Christmas replaced the old Winter Soltice and pagan Saturnalia celebrations.
Why I don’t care, as a non religious person I don’t attend church services so when the services takes place has no impact, as a retired person the concept of bank holiday doesn’t mean a holiday. The shops are all open and even if the banks aren’t I bank on line. I live in Scotland so the grandkids’ school holidays are always the first two weeks of April. I think Scotland only has the one day public holiday but I couldn’t tell you if it was Friday or Monday.
So in the world we now live in how significant are public holidays never mind if there is a religious festival attached.
While I agree entirely – it creates problems this year for all those (the majority of) employers who choose to run their leave year from 1 April to 31 March, I think you are making the wrong argument. Let the church have Easter whenever they like, just don’t make it (or Christmas) a bank holiday.
I will just run away very fast as I know there will be a lot of disagreement.
I have no religious belief although I do like the personal traditions associated with Christmas and Easter – mainly food and family related. That means I have no other particular dates that I wish to celebrate unlike those who do hold other, non Christian, beliefs. I remember the struggles a colleague had to take time off work to celebrate Eid at the end of Ramadan, another important date fixed according to some ‘lunar mumbo jumbo’ that means the actual date cannot be ascertained much before it happens.
Why not have a list of dates that people who require as holidays for religious reasons, will always be given priority for, and spread the bank holidays sensibly through the year.
I can’t agree with you on fixing the date of Easter, but it’s a pleasure to read your arguments, as always. Would you think it appropriate to fix the dates of Ramadan? of Chinese New Year? Probably not, because the centres of those religions are not here. But the same is true, nowadays, of Christianity; there are many more Christians in Africa and Asia than here. Would these other centres agree to change the date of Easter? Not a chance.
I must admit I’m not good at planning for dates. I have often been caught out on 15 August in France (Feast of the Assumption of the BVM). Food shops are closed!
Easter can be whenever the church wants
It’s the holiday we call Easter I want fixed
If that requires renaming, so be it. In fact, that might be a very good idea.
Would the be plan for UK to have a secular public spring holiday, entirely separate from the traditional commemoration of the crucifixion? So we would be out of step with many Western European countries (even secular France) that have public holidays for some or all of Good Friday, Easter Monday, Ascension Day, Whit Monday, and Corpus Christi.
Or would the plan be to persuade the leading Christian denominations to decide to mark the crucifixion on a specific fixed calendar day? Good luck with that – I believe it is the main reason Sir John Simon’s 1928 Easter Act was never brought into force (I understand he was a Congregationalist).
The Orthodox churches that still following the Julian calendar for liturgical purposes will celebrate Easter on Sunday 5 May this year. Unsurprisingly, countries with an orthodox and tradition often have public holidays on the previous Friday and following Monday, just as countries with a Catholic or a Protestant tradition have a public holiday today.
But I understand that some churches prefer to not mark Christmas or Easter on specific days, but rather on every day.
I see little chance of this changing while the Church of England remains the established church, without the churches reaching some agreement first.
Happy Easter everyone.
My wish would be for the secular holidays (becaise that is what they are) to be fixed
What the church does would be entirely up to it to decide
Alternatively, you keep Easter flexible as it is now, but don’t arrange the school term around it.
The first Sunday after the first full moon after the Spring Equinox. That’s pretty nice, why change it?
Christians will want to celebrate it, but it’s on a Sunday so it doesn’t have to interfere with anything else. And we (non-devout Christians) pretty much ignore Good Friday, with banks and shops still opening.
But in schools, some years you might get a spring term of eight weeks, with an equivalently long summer term. It doesn’t make sense and it’s unfair for everyone taking exams.
We could have equal-length months, that would be an improvement. There’s a plan for twelve thirty-day months with the five or six extra days placed around Christmas for a holiday. Except this is the worst time of the year for a holiday: it’s cold and dark and the trains don’t work. Have the holiday around the summer solstice, and go completely pagan?
I have no desire to tell anyone when they might worship – I am talking about state holidays here…
What the Church does is its business and anyone wanting Good Friday off can take holiday.
Sorry Stuart Young, your comment wasn’t up when I posted.
You’re saying the same thing but more succinctly.
While we are at it, any suggestions for a few more Bank Holidays?
April & May have quite a few anyway, which rules out VE day, my suggestions might be Mid July to coincide with the end of the School Term, One for the Autumn Half Term & one for the Winter Half Term in February.
Do you know there are 7 bank Holidays in the 6 months from 1 December to 31 May, and only 1 in the next 6?
Bizarre, isn’t?
I’m assuming this is April fools.,, problem
is some of your board members are thinking it is for real.
You are the one who is mistaken
I was interested to learn recently that, although the Ukrainians have decided to break with the Russian Orthodox Christmas date and joined the West by celebrating last Christmas on 25th December, they are still calculating Easter using the Julian calendar, which means that the Orthodox Easter Sunday 2024 officially falls on 5th May. However about 15% of Ukrainians are Catholic and they celebrated Easter yesterday. So things could be even more complicated.
I agree with you that Easter should be fixed. I’d go for the second Sunday in April. By the way, this would mean that Mother’s Day (or Mothering Sunday) would be fixed too, as it falls on the fourth Sunday in Lent.
I think it’s already been pointed out that Orthodox (ie. Eastern churches) use a different calendar, so Easter Sunday is 5 May for them (!) and Passover also uses a different, lunar, calendar (with a leap month when necessary to realign with annual seasons) – so in 2024, the first Seder will be on 22 April after nightfall and the festival ends eight days later on 30 April.
I’m inclined to agree to fix the state holidays by date in the regular calendar not some almost incomprehensible lunar arrangement of whatever sort; and leave the church(es) to align with that or do as they see fit. Since the historical record and Christian texts have the original Easter (aligned with Passover) starting with the meal (seder) on a Thursday (for Jesus and friends, because they were countryside Jews, I think) and hence “resurrection day” on the Sunday, the only question might be whether the Friday of a fixed-date ‘spring holiday’ would be a bank holiday at all? Not to lose a holiday, having one in the autumn might be better, since there’s a dearth of holidays then. Perhaps 1st October, if some reason for that date could be agreed?!
I suspect the majority of responses indicating they do not care is due to the fact that the question is phrased as “should the date of *easter* be fixed”, meaning the religious observance.
Given that the UK is increasingly a secular nation, it’s no surprise that most people have no opinion on what a particular church chooses to do. It’s not even consistent among the major Christian denominations.
There’s no reason in modern Britain that public holidays should be dictated by one religion – a better way to phrase the question would be whether the date of this spring bank holiday in the UK should be more secular and predictable, rather than being linked to one religion’s traditional irregular observance.
Fair comment
Point taken
Coincidentally, today’s YouGov daily poll asked a similar question.
54% voted to maintain the current system and 27% voted for a fixed date for Easter.
Strange…