As the Guardian noted yesterday:
At the post-PMQs lobby briefing Rishi Sunak's press secretary refused to rule out a post-election pact with with DUP, or any other party. In a press release drafted as an audacious parody, Labour is now attacking Sunak for refusing to rule out a deal with the SNP.
As a consequence, and as they also note, Ian Murray, the shadow Scottish secretary, said:
Rishi Sunak's refusal to rule out a grubby deal with the SNP is a sign of his desperation to cling to power. A repeat of the Tory-Nat coalition previously seen in Scotland would wreck the UK, putting the very foundations of our country at risk.
Under Keir Starmer and Anas Sarwar's leadership, Labour has said repeatedly we wouldn't do any deal with those who want to break up our country. The Tories must now urgently follow Labour's example.
As the Guardian itself then notes:
In one respect, this is pure tosh. As Alex Salmond might have put it, rocks will probably melt in the sun before the SNP forms a coalition with the Tories.
So why did Labour do it? Because in 2015 the Tory suggestion that Labour would form a coalition with the SNP was thought to be significant in helping the Tories win.
Labour does of course know there is no chance at all of a Tory / SNP alliance: the loathing between the two is clear every time an SNP member speaks in the Commons. But they thought it was a good joke to say it.
I admit I don't think it that funny. Denying people in Scotland their democratic right to decide on their future is just another in the string of democratic failures that Labour appears to be determined to put together as evidence that they are intent in ruling in opposition to the will of the people of this country and the four nations within it.
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But we had our democratic right to decide on our future in 2014.
And we decided.
Since when was democracy a one-off event?
I never said it was.
….but after having two referendums that you didn’t like the result of, it seems you’re not a big fan of democracy anyway.
Democracy includes the right to change your mind
That’s problem with those who oppose it: they don’t realise that
There has been a significant material change in circumstances since then (Brexit and the huge slide towards an authoritarian regime in WM). As Richard notes, democracy isn’t a “one and dome” event, it evolves as circumstances change.
It’s worth noting the irony implicit in this piece, as Labour and Tory councillors have entered into pacts in Scottish councils specifically to keep those councils out of SNP control. Strange how under reported that is, can’t imagine why…
THE MISERABLE UNIONISTS
ALWAYS TELL LIES TO CONTROL THE NARATIVE
Scotland is tired of LIES AND DECEIT
As I have said here before, Labour in Scotland and the SNP have an almost visceral hatred of each other, dating back to the 1970s.
Ian Murray comes out with increasingly eccentric statements, and he may not be the sole Labour MP in Scotland any more, after the next general election, for the reason that there may not be any… The prospect of the SNP forming any sort of electoral pact with the Tories is, as you say, simply ludicrous. The Tories in Scotland are now a one-trick pony, a home for their own Project Fear, those who continue to swallow the lie that an independent Scotland would be too wee and too poor to be a viable nation; a lie that is bolstered by the ludicrous GERS (an offensive acronym if there ever was one).
For the Tories the SNP was a useful tool for destroying the Labour domination of Scottish Westminster seats, but like the medieval kings and current dictators the Tories ape they have discovered that the useful tool has become a threat to their wealth and power.
Gone are the the glory days of Murdoch power when the English version of the Sun would whip up hatred of the SNP while the Scottish version of the Sun supported it.
As for a Tory/SNP alliance, never underestimate what the Tories are prepared to do to stay in power.
And if I may – taking into consideration Mr Warren’s input – never underestimated the what the SNP might be prepared to do to get into power too. The Scots have a history of trying to make the best of the situation or taking what advantages they can in their relationship with England – there might be some surprises yet!
I’ll never see that aligning with the Tories
Confidence and apply with Labour on condition of a referendum? Maybe
I am not sure about the SNP Richard.
What if the Tories offered them a Referendum at some point in an alliance government.
The Lib Dems swallowed the bait and look what happened to them.
Whenever Cameron and Osborne needed somebody to defend one of their rotten and corrupt policies it always seemed to be a Lib Dem doing the media round.
They had their Referendum but it was virtually disappeared by the lack of coverage from the UK media and I suspect that in a survey of the UK population today a majority of the UK population would not even remember it.
Even worse, come the 2015 General Election they lost 90% of their seats.
You would think the SNP would have learnt from that debacle but given the amount of pressure they are currently under from the UK media who knows what desperation might make them do?
I think the antipathy too strong
And bluntly, I can’t see the Tories offering, or being in a position to do so
It would be the death knell of the SNP electorally – I really can’t see its supporters tolerating it
The Labour Party started out as a democratic socialist party. Under Starmer it appears to have junked both. We are told by Starmer supporters it’s necessary to do this to wrest power from the Tories. Logic surely dictates Starmer would continue to go nowhere near democratic socialism in order to retain power.
So what exactly is the point of the Labour Party these days? What does it stand for in terms of ideals and implementing them once it achieves power? Well we know it stands for the nonsense of balancing the government’s books and also denying many the right to have their views heard.
So to illustrate them both the revamp of the House of Lords including handing new economic and taxation powers to new independent councils of the nations and for England hardly tallies with the desire to balance the government’s books irregardless of effect! In other words regional views are likely to continue to be disregarded. The Scottish syndrome again!
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/19/keir-starmer-i-will-abolish-house-of-lords-to-restore-trust-in-politics
One other element in PMQs was the recognition by VileSunak that VileStarmer and Liebore are as big a pack of liars as the VileTories. VileSunak went after VileStarmer on the latter’s broken pledges. We can expect more of the same in the future, hopefully some of the VileTory mud will stick, thus exposing Liebore for what it is, composed, mostly, of a pack of liars & chancers,…………just like the VileTories.
As for SNP+VileTory, about as likely as a squadron for flying pigs.
If the SNP were to offer support in forming a Tory government in exchange for a Section 30 Order, I’d resign from the SNP.
Sadly, I’m beginning to think the same way about inflicting a Starmer-led government on the UK.
Surely this is just Labour getting its defence in early in anticipation of a Tory accusation they are “planning” a coalition with the SNP. That accusation has been used before, and probably cost them votes.
Obviously neither of the main parties are going to go into an election with an advertised plan to govern in coalition. However they both must know that it is a possibility the electorate will give neither of them sufficient MPs to govern on their own, and they may have to work out a way they could work with others to form a government. That said, the nature of such discussions would depend on the actual electoral arithmetic on the day – with too many possible outcomes to plan for everything.
If the SNP were to maintain its current number of MPs at the next General Election, then there is the possibility no party could command a majority of the Commons unless it worked with them. Even to form a minority government they would need some tacit agreement to ensure they aren’t voted down. I suspect both parties are hoping that situation won’t arise.
It might be that
But I believe Labour’s continue for the SNP, and tat is why they will continue to do badly in Scotland, whatever they might like to think. And SNP supporter voting Labour is now about as likely as a Celtic fan supporting Rangers
Thankfully, there is absolutely no chance of the SNP offering any shady back room deals to either the red or blur Tories. Labour are a busted flush up here, yes, there are pockets of support left, in a certain blue supporting part of Glasgow for example, but in general terms no up here would trust them with a lighted match. No one has forgotten, as much as they would like us to, them siding with the Tory party in the Bitter Together campaign, and the grubby little deals between the two parties to keep the SNP out at Council level. If it was not for the list neither of them would have a single SMP, 99.9% of them scrape in via the list, including the odious Jacquie Bailie and DRoss. No, despite the Guardian etc pushing the “Scotland needs to vote Labour” trope, it ‘ain’t going to happen.
Tosh it certainly is. The notion of SNP assisting either Tory or Labour to govern in Westminster is utter tosh. Quite apart from the damage it would inflict on the SNP and its following within Scotland and the contamination of being an ally of two parties widely despised by the Scots, there is the question of why would the SNP wish to be involved in the whole rotten cess pit of Westminster FPTP politics?
Due to the d’Hondt PR system for Holyrood elections, we’ve become accustomed up here to the politics of censensus, as is also the case in Wales and most of Western Europe. However the FPTP system of Westminster and indeed its traditions and history are designed to produce confrontational politics where winner takes all. This in turn ensures that the interests and dogmas of the governing party always trump the interests of the people. What is it it about the English mindset (with honourable exceptions) that it, almost alone in Europe, chooses a method of governance designed to avoid consensus and to marginalise the interests of the people?
2016 changed everything for me and as a Labour voter I am now fully committed to independence . I will vote SNP in the next election for the first time . I am sure I’m not alone in this . Starmer ain’t looking for my vote he is looking for the disaffected Tory/Unionist votes to get him his MPs from Scotland . I see voting for the SNP as a means to an end . Indy will come I have no doubt in the future . Right wing populist governments in London do nothing to encourage me and others to stay . It’s been a long 13 years and nothing to show for it either but misery and poverty growth ! Starmer encourages this by his failure to be progressive on policies that would eradicate this but instead bows to the pressure in returning the red wall seats to the fold at the expense of the rest of the country . I would rather cut my hand off than vote Tory like other fickle people .
This speculation about the SNP doing a deal with the Tories is way off the mark. Scottish voters were totally scunnered by Labour leaders sharing
a platform with the hated Tories. THAT’S why Labour will never be trusted again.
They are only able to spout this nonsense with the connivance of the media, especially when Labour has coalesced with rhe Tories in several councils, notably Aberdeen City.
Ian Murray has become a joke figure in Scottish politics. The sole Labour MP in Scotland is completely dependent on the votes of Tories in MORNINGSIDE, Edinburgh to keep his seat. Just Wow!!
Who in their sane minds would want a coalition with the Starmtroopers?