This post is by Andrew, who is a regular commentator to this blog, who has posted two comments to this blog this morning, all of which I share here because I think they are important in the context of what Boris Johnson has had to say today.
Andrew began with this:
Let's have some basic facts on asylum.
In 2021, there were 48,540 asylum applications in the UK, relating to 56,495 people. That was a 63% increase on 2020, and the highest for years, but it it not a record. It was over 80,000 in 2002. Unsurprisingly, the number of refugees increase in times of civil disturbance and war.
Nearly 10,000 came from Iran, 6,000 from Iraq, 5,000 from Iraq and Albania, and several thousand from Syria, Afghanistan and Sudan. Nearly half were males aged 18 to 29. I wonder if we can think of any reasons why these people may find it easier to leave. But a sixth were children, and over 3,500 unaccompanied.
So that is who we are talking about. Largely young Moslem men from the Middle East, many of whom might speak some English but probably not French.
In 2021, the UK offered protection, in the form of asylum, humanitarian protection, alternative forms of leave and resettlement, to 14,734 people (including dependants). Barely more than 1000 per month.
Around half the people from Iraq and Albania are granted asylum, so there is clearly a problem with people from these countries who are not refugees, but over 80% and for some countries over 95% are granted asylum.
Overall, in 2021, initial decisions on asylum were made in 14,572 cases, so the backlog is getting longer year on year. The number of initial decisions is significantly lower than in 2019 (20,766). And overall 72% were granted asylum or another status allowing them to remain in the UK (which is higher than the usual trend, of about a third).
There were appeals against refusal in 4,035 cases and 49% of appeals were granted.
That left 81,978 cases (relating to 100,564 people) awaiting an initial decision.
These are the sort of of people we might give a one-way ticket to a country in the middle of Africa which has a history of human rights abuses and ethnic violence. That is 90%+ Christian, and English is the third language. Where LGBT rights are problematic. Where the president is a former army officer who has been in office for over 20 years, changed the electoral law to his benefit, banned opposition parties and disqualified potential opponents, and as a result has been elected with over 90% of the vote three times. Either he is more popular than Jesus or … well.
This would not be the first time the UK has set up camps in Africa to hold civilians it didn't care for.
The prospect of my country treating desperate people in this inhuman manner disgusts me.
He then added this:
I tried to post some basic facts about immigration earlier, but here is another angle.
The UK has a population of around 67 million. There are around 700,000 births and 600,000 deaths each year. So the population is growing by about 100,000 each year just due to births exceeding deaths. But an increasing number of people are aged 70 and over, and the post-war baby boom generations from the 1950s and 1960s (over a million per year) are at or approaching retirement.
Even without the moral argument that we are obliged to give asylum to people who need it – which is most of those who claim it – if we can accommodate hundreds of thousands of new children each year, who will need health and education services for at least 18 years, and a million people per year entering retirement, whose health and welfare needs will only increase, then we can add some more people seeking asylum without too much problem. Most of the migrants are young, fit and healthy (they need to be to get to the UK) and could be working productively for decades. Many are well educated, and will save us the time and cost of primary and secondary schooling. The economic argument in favour of immigration is almost unanswerable.
No, no. Let's ship them off to Rwanda. It beggars belief.
The delay was all my fault: I realised I intended to post the comment as a post and so delayed moderating it.
I am as appalled as Andrew, and am ashamed that this country can propose something as base and racist as this. That is why I share this.
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I despair.
Is there any mileage in the claim that this proposal is in absolute conflict with the Equalities Act. Apparently only single young men will be deported to Rwanda. Setting aside all the other reasons that the proposal is abhorrent, is this not illegal discrimination on the grounds of marital status, age and gender? Home Office branching out from its known history of racism to include a few other isms, for balance?
Interesting idea
I am sure the claim will be mounted
I am also appalled and disgusted. This is a new low for the Johnson government and is not far short of evil.
I have been looking at some of the comments people have been posting below the line on e.g. MSN and the BBC on this story. Truly depressing there are so many full of hate who go on about immigrants stealing jobs, being a burden on tax payers, etc. Millions of people have moved from the UK to go in the past to the colonies, but today mostly to Spain, the USA, etc. Are they all stealing jobs and being a burden? Of course not. So somehow I suspect we would find that all the anti-immigrant folk have a magic whitewash brush by which folk that come to the UK are despicable immigrants, but people from the UK that go elsewhere are not immigrants at all because they are ‘ex pats’. Ex pats are of course completely different to any immigrant. Just bizarre that so many delude themselves, refuse to understand anything and blank out their hypocrisy.
Agreed
Too full of hate to see what is actually making them poor: the Tory party.
‘Tis a shame.
Another dead cat slammed into the table. It is of course appalling, designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator of the Tory base. BUT it is there to distract from areas that should receive attention, a very long and boring list.
The Tories and others know that without millions of migrants over the coming decades there won’t be anyone to cook, clean, deliver, teach, operate on and wipe the arses of the old and sick racists.
Unfortunately, I missed it, Richard. Glad you shared it, though ‘glad’ is not the right word here.
It’s beyond belief – a new low when the barrier was already low. Whenever you think it can’t get worse, it does just that. Will this ‘government’ stop at anything?
And I don’t think it’s a dead cat (other than perhaps in the precise timing of the announcement).
Disgust aside there are some significant issues here aren’t there?
We obviously have a Government that is no longer interested in looking after people but those in its own economic hinterland. Let’s be honest now, OK?
So, the question arises then as to why people out there in the world still think that this ‘septic isle’ is a good place to come to?
Are things that bad elsewhere that we really are a soft touch or more generous? I can see that people will come here who already have relations here and when you are desperate these matters might not be uppermost in your mind sure?
But this Government has no appetite to help anyone but itself.
I really don’t know why these unfortunates continue to bother.
As things stand, there is nothing for them.
Just one more distraction. Meanwhile the NHS continues to crumble. I read an article from an NHS campaigner several months back suggesting all local surgeries would be closed and relocated to one central point. Here where I live, Molesey in Surrey, plans are to rebuild the local hospital to accommodate just that. It will make financial sense too for the two surgeries most local to me to sell off their properties and move to the hospital as their properties are worth several million to builders. I was there, today, our hospital, for physio. It (rather like me) was not in the best state of repair. I recall too reading how Sunak was recently in America, his new homeland apparently (one of them) meeting with private healthcare executives. I doubt then that we’ll be seeing him voluntarily quit till Kaiser Permanente (I believe it’s to be them) have taken over all the NHS trusts. I doubt we’ll be seeing Boris voluntarily quit ever, as I’ve said before, he’ll need to be carried out on his shield.
“Disgusted of Swindon” writes:
If the announcement itself does not embody pure evil (and I believe it does), the response from Diane Abbott and several left-wing Facebook posters decrying the policy *because of its cost implications* has been horrifying.
Thank you to everyone commenting here for not once falling into that foul pit. A little “faith in human…” has returned.
To those saying this is a dead cat, perhaps But the very fact that the government has suggested it indicates how far we have slid into the mire.
I post this thread as it makes many of the points I would like to.
https://twitter.com/richardbentall/status/1514199687254974468
To summarise, the prime minister appears to be a psychopath: a habitual liar who will do anything; literally, he thinks the rules do not apply to him. The evidence is there is plain sight, throughout his life. This is not like other situations, where rumours about unsavoury behaviour only come to public attention much later. It is right there, in front of us.
He has surrounded himself with a cabinet of unprincipled chancers who are willing to emulate that behaviour. To quote, this dysfunctional government “will will break every convention, bend every rule, lie and cheat to hang on to power”. The next general election could be a shitshow. The pig wants us to wrestle with it.
The non-Conservative majority of the population has to get its act together and oppose this otherwise our democracy is at threat, like it was in Europe in the 1920s and 1930s, like it is now in Hungary and Turkey, perhaps even in France and the US. This could end very badly indeed unless we push back *now*.
To quote, “the opposition needs to fucking well OPPOSE … the time for civil disobedience in near; we are at the last chance saloon. The country may not survive.”
This is not alarmist nonsense. It is all too real, and it is happening right now.
Richard is another Sheffield professor. We have been talking……
I used Richard’s Tweet as the basis for an email to my MP – Jeremy Hunt. There seems to be nothing that Johnson’s government will not stoop to. Johnson also refers to ‘politically motivated lawyers’ in his speech, clearly trailing what they will do when they are inevitably challenged.
I think there is some credence to the suggestion that the announcement was intended to divert attention. i don’t know which is worse – the despicable Rwanda announcement or the cynicism of the dead cat.
@russincheshire had a particularly fine WeekinTory. When you list all that happened in succession, it is just staggering that they are still in power, and that so many people still want to vote for them
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1514296763812831237.html
https://notohassockfield.org.uk/
This happened last year for women.They managed to get away with it without too much publicity because it’s in the north east, and because it opened on what was a former detention centre for young men which had closed down because they were treated appallingly. Cases are still going through court. The government has changed the name of the removal centre to Derwentside because it knows the bad publicity that the name Hassockfield will get.
This government will do anything it can to gain votes to do with what it and its followers call illegal immigrants.
One of the most vociferous members of the group was himself an asylum seeker and is now studying law at Northumbria University. He has a lot to say about how appalling the human rights abuses are in Rwanda. He is called Md Abir.
Thanks
Accepting all the moral arguments, but just on an economic point, the population replenishment rate is 2.1. The last time the UK hit that was 1973. The boomers were born 1950 to 1965. Women of that generation can expect to live until on ave to 79/80,men to 74. Simple maths shows that we need more young people to pay for and actually do the caring of an older population. Population decline is an inevitability alongside economic decline. We need more immigration, not less
Precisely
“if we can accommodate hundreds of thousands of new children each year, who will need health and education services for at least 18 years, and a million people per year entering retirement, whose health and welfare needs will only increase, then we can add some more people seeking asylum without too much problem. ”
In case you failed to notice it, the govt. is ‘solving’ the aging population problem through Covid, fuel poverty and no doubt soon to come care costs. It’s been ‘solving’ the ‘disabled’ and ‘too many of the wrong kind of children’ problem through bureacratically induced stress and poverty for years.
For them, anyone who is not ‘economically active’, by which they mean paying rent, simply doesn’t count.
You are appropriately cyncial
Moral arguments apart, it was simultaneously reported on the BBC that the Rwanda facility had a capacity of 100 whilst we were expecting boat arrivals to top 1000/day soon enough!!!! Presumably they ran the numbers by Rishi before issuing the press release ! Patel must have decided the baying brexiteer mob needed feeding again.
So, the net affect on immigration will be zero. This will only accelerate this country’s decline into moral bankruptcy.
I feel ashamed.