I was asked during the talk that I gave to an Australian conference this morning how I imagined that society could take the power to deliver change, like the Green New Deal.
I answered off-the-cuff, and so do not have a note of what I said, precisely. However, I always answer such questions in broadly the same way. My argument is based upon experience.
Unless we are talking revolutions, and I do not, then the only way to take power that I know of is to outthink the opposition. In practical terms, that means that those who want to change have to explain what it looks like. Unless you can say what it is the alternative power that you want to put in place will do, how, and to what end, then people are not going to help you get it.
I learned this with the tax justice movement. I well recall from 2003 onwards being told that there was not a chance that tax havens would deliver on automatic information exchange of tax data in my lifetime. However, that did not stop a group of us explaining precisely what we needed, which was quite different, and a lot less complicated than the proposal from those who were, in effect, maintaining the status quo. The consequence is that we have now had automatic information exchange for a number of years, and I am still alive.
The same is also true with regard to country-by-country reporting. I can also well remember the conferences and meetings that I went to where the Big 4 firms of accountants were absolutely adamant that it would be impossible to produce this type of data. Ignoring for a moment their wild claims that their clients did not know where they traded, which would of course have meant that they were not keeping the books and records required by company law, I was simply able to point out that this had to be untrue for a whole range of reasons, including local tax laws. Their claim was not possible, but mine, which could be explained in detail, was. The consequence is that country-by-country reporting is now a legal requirement in more than 70 countries, albeit only for tax purposes.
The Green New Deal is, of course, a third example. None of us who sat in Ann Pettifor's flat to discuss writing this in 2007 and 2008 thought that more than a decade later there would, right around the world, be calls for a Green New Deal, and yet they are the direct consequence of those meetings and the willingness that Colin Hines and I had to keep this issue will live in the barren years between 2010 and 2017 when almost no one talked about it. What we had was a plan.
So, how to take power? To some extent, simply ignore the issue of power is my answer. Simply prove that you have a better answer. Keep at it, persistently explaining what people keep telling you is nonsense, and then the day comes when suddenly everyone thought it was a great idea all along. That is what is happening with modern monetary theory now. At that point you don't need to take power: people want to be part of its delivery process instead.
That is why I don't go into politics. It is why I stick with the ideas. I have more chances of changing the world that way, even if by only a little bit, and only on occasion. That will do.
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Great stuff. Totally agree.
I wish that this insight had landed in the Remain campaign so that instead of arguing for the EU we had argued for free trade with the rest of the world, for high food standards, for the freedom to travel and work across many borders.
Today’s society would be so much better without the normalisation of the right wing.
Have you spoken to Keir Starmer about this?
It is so sane.
I have no access to Keir Starmer
I know no one who has
I know those who have tried
Nobody being able to engage Keir Starmer for an exchange of views except a tight inner circle is a bit rich considering Starmer said the following:-
“Sir Keir Starmer has warned Boris Johnson the UK risks ‘falling behind the rest of the world’ in its coronavirus response if ministers continue to refuse to tell the public what the government’s lockdown exit strategy is. The Labour leader has written to the Prime Minister to urge him to hold an ‘adult conversation’ with Britons to spell out what they are likely to face next.”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8258025/Sir-Keir-Starmer-warns-Boris-Johnson-UK-falling-countries-easing-lockdown.html
Same old establishment “I know what’s good for you!” going on here yet again I suspect.
What you say is logical. But time is not on your (our) side. I recently watched a 1982 Thames tv interview with Petra Kelly. At the time, in addition to global warming and destruction of our ecosystem, the nuclear issue was at the top of the Green political agenda. While it hasn’t gone away, thankfully there seems to be little appetite among the major powers for WW3. However, on the issue of ‘ecocide’, almost no progress has been made in the past 38 years towards reducing global warming which has of course increased significantly since then, with its attendant threats to socio-economic life on the planet.
Hence, I wouldn’t rule out revolution as a strategic option or even an inevitability. Hopefully it will be peaceful but there’s no guarantee. We’re entering a period of seismic paradigm shift with all the uncertainty implied therein, within a rapidly shrinking window of opportunity.
If I may be permitted a second bite of the cherry, so to speak, here are 2 short YouTubes that have just been uploaded today which further emphasise the urgency. David Doel ends by stating: “… when it comes to like the Green New Deal it is really just the base-line in terms of what needs to be done ….”.
‘Arctic Hits its Hottest Temperature Ever’ – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCvHoNBLJXw.
‘Interview with a climate scientist — Ella Gilbert’ – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr9wall81O8.
The time for prolonged discussion & debate is over. Immediate action is required by governments. But we know that’s not going to happen under Neo-liberalism. The wheels of Democracy grind painfully slow even in those progressive countries with PR. As for the US and UK – there’s no chance of systemic change. So, where do we go from here?
Argue harder
Richard so glad I have found someone talking about modern monetary theory.
I posed these questions to the bank of England a few years ago now.
“I am really interested in this balance sheet item (ways and means advances to HM government). I would assume these are loans provided to the government when they cannot find buyers for their gilts. Is this the case? Would interest be paid on these loans if so what is the rational for this? Is it to dampen any inflation that may result from creating money?”
I was delighted the Bank of England got back to me with this.
“The Ways and Means facility is the central government’s overdraft facility at the Bank of England. Until 2000, when the Debt Management Office (DMO) took responsibility for the government’s cash management function from the Bank of England, the facility was used as the means of balancing the Government’s day-to-day cash needs. The Ways and Means advance earns interest at Bank rate, which HM Treasury pays to the Bank’s Issue Department monthly.
By way of background, it had always been the Government’s intention to reduce the advance. When cash management operations were moved from the Bank of England to the DMO in 2000, a decision was taken not to use the ways and means advance for cash management purposes. The balance was repaid in large and fixed at the current level of £370m in 2008. For comparison, the Ways and Means balance stood at £13,370m at February 2007.”
However I am still a little in the dark, would you describe the previous system of ways and means facility a example of modern monetary theory in practise?
It was evidence that money was advanced ad demanded whenever required, and so yes evidence of MMT
I strongly suspect that still happens and the account is cleared each Thursday
I believe that MMT is right in saying all spend comes in advance of tax – the Ways and Means just made that clearer than the DMO operation does
@ John D, I absolutely agree!
On a side note, one thing I would like to see on this blog, with the wide variety of responses, is some way of voting for or against a post? There are some gems and also some dross in the replies but unless I read through the whole thread I have no idea what is in there and sometimes the topic is very active. Not sure it is going to change the world one way or the other but it would be nice to know the consensus of opinion.
Any possibility of this please Prof Murphy?
Thanks.
I tried and it did not work and attracted lots of silly trolls
´l was simply able to point out that this had to be untrue’
‘Simply prove that you have a better answer…’
I think you get traction because you keep your solutions simple enough for people like me to understand.
Your descriptions and ideas often sound so self evident once you have explained them.
There is a lot to be said for the effectiveness of a good elevator pitch.
Selling the green new deal ought to be one of the easier sells In history at this point in history.
As it solves at least two worldwide problems in one go!
No wonder even some political parties are starting to see the light.
It strikes me that what you are proposing is a revolution, comrade. Maybe it’s not the fun one where we dust off the guillotines but changing the power structure of society is a revolution.
I agree that changing the minds of people in order to change the power structure is the only way to have an effective revolution. The other type will just lead to some other mendacious so-and-sos taking power and we end up back where we started.
Unfortunately, we don’t have time for the better type of revolution. And arguing harder won’t speed up the process. So we are doomed. I wish I had a constructive idea for dealing with it.
The vast majority of people don’t have the slightest idea about what’s happening. Even the fact that the governent has just reckelessly allowed tens of thousands to die seems not to bother anyone. And, as you illustrate so clearly, the incomptetence and indifference in handling the economic consequences is akin to the government of the UK actively attacking their own country. We are ruled by a class of people deliberately destroying the country. They are doing it in plain site. Almost no one is angry.
[…] Cross-posted from Tax Research UK […]
Meanwhile Johnson and Cummings are busy ensuring they will have total control – dictatorship is imminent. Why this isn’t front page news is beyond me, it is so alarming. https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld5801/ldselect/ldconst/71/71.pdf
or read this as a summary of the main points.
https://davidhencke.com/2020/06/21/welcome-to-your-new-rulers-uk-commissioners-gove-johnson-and-cummings/
I want to be optimistic but humans never seem to change until crisis hits.
Now the world has been given the most amazing opportunity to do things differently. As the world came to a standstill due to Coronavirus, the planet had a chance to breathe! Pollution levels down… our mad over consumption of stuff stopped. Restricted air travel… Part of what we must do if we are to halt the overheating of our planet.
…Yet…No…every government is fixed upon trying to get things back to ‘normal’!
…People queuing to get back out to shop.
Like addicts, blind to the signs of what we are doing. Climate change already affecting our planet. Fires rage every summer more uncontrollably in different parts of the world as it heats.
…Hope we can, perhaps…
As the amazing anti racism demonstrations that the killing of George Floyd has created not just in America, but here and Australia, and other parts of the world – no longer will it be tolerated. Why hasn’t this pressure for real awareness of the systemic racism in our Western society been acknowledged, and policy change made to happen (as I think it will now) before?
It will take public opinion to create the change necessary for the implementation of change to save ourselves as the planet heats. The planet will survive without us.
Enough of us have to get clean – as an addict does – to show the way and put pressure on governments. They don’t seem able to. Token gestures are all they do. And now? The refrain of we can’t afford to. We have to get our economies up and running again! Greater austerity, I fear, imposed. This in itself may hasten revolution rather than evolution, as no doubt unemployment will rise as this pandemic hits more and more businesses. More people struggling to make ends meet.
You show a way to do things differently, Richard. A way that would work for our economy and the planet.
Don’t give up. I know you won’t. Others of us won’t either. More will join.
Never give up hope. Not until our last breaths anyway.
100% agree that you continue to engage and put forward your well considered proposals. You cannot give up – as what is the alternative?