I watched Marr this morning. I thought I was doing so to watch the Grant Shapps car crash, but that was so predictably bad that there is little to say.
Much more interesting was the interview with AstraZeneca's CEO, Pascal Soriot. This concerned the Covid-19 vaccine his company is rushing into production with little apparent evidence currently available that it will be efficacious.
Marr asked what the hurry was and the CEO was candid. Unless, he said, this got to market quickly there was a very real chance that the vaccine will arrive too late to be required. There would not, he said, be enough of the virus left in the community to prove whether the vaccine had ever been required.
This set off multitudinous alarm bells in my head.
First, it suggests that AstraZeneca thinks that Covid-19 is really fading away pretty fast anyway. I know that some epidemiologists are suggesting that - and that in fact almost all the deaths it will cause have now, in effect happened, but there are many others who very obviously do not agree. The obvious question we have to ask then is whether he has the evidence that we do, in fact, no longer have reason to be concerned?
Second, is it the case, then, that lockdown really is working? That would be good to know, and help reinforce the message, surely?
And, thirdly and most importantly, is that why the government is clearly doing all it can to bring it to an end as soon as possible, so that another wave of Covid-19 happens precisely so that some businesses profit heavily, which is very clearly what AstraZeneca fears it will miss out on?
Does that then explain the Cummings fiasco, which can then be seen as being aimed at ending compliance?
And is that why schools are being reopened to increase the reinfection rate again - as all reasoned science seems to suggest inevitable?
Is it that not only is herd immunity now the policy but that policy is now that Covid 19 must be perpetuated for long eno0ugh so that profit can be made from achieving this goal?
I hate to be cynical on an issue so serious, but what else is going on?
Marr did not pick up on these points, but I think he should have done.
And if you doubt my thinking note this report from Sky:
There is only a 50% chance of the Oxford coronavirus vaccine working because cases in the UK are declining so fast, one of the scientists behind it has warned.
The University of Oxford's Jenner Institute and the Oxford Vaccine Group began developing a COVID-19 vaccine in January using a virus taken from chimpanzees.
But with the number of UK coronavirus cases dropping every day, there may not be enough people to test it on, according to the institute's director Professor Adrian Hill.
He told The Sunday Telegraph: "It's a race against the virus disappearing, and against time. We said earlier in the year that there was an 80% chance of developing an effective vaccine by September.
"But at the moment, there's a 50% chance that we get no result at all. We're in the bizarre position of wanting COVID to stay, at least for a little while."
The evidence that there might be a plan to perpetuate Covid-19 looks horribly possible to me.
I sincerely hope it is not true.
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God what an idiot you are
And your evidence is?
I definitely think the big pharmaceutical firms see this as an opportunity and they will do they’re utmost to capitalise, on that there is no doubt.. but you are linking the Govt deliberately setting off a second wave for the purpose of allowing them to capitalise?? That is garbage… there is clearly a trade off between lockdown and getting the economy moving. With no new cases reported in London for 48hrs it is inevitable pressure will come to bear to get things moving. The conspiracy that the Government is deliberately setting off to kill people so Astra can make money is fine for hard left conspiracy theorists but not for anyone sane.
I was quoting the companies
Sky was quoting Oxford
Ate they hard left?
“And, thirdly and most importantly, is that why the government is clearly doing all it can to bring it to an end as soon as possible, so that another wave of Covid-19 happens precisely so that some businesses profit “
That was the quote from the hard left conspiracy theorists I was referring to!! Complete nonsense
number one the rush for a vaccine trial is because without large numbers of cases the trial cant demonstrate the vaccine works. Not that the vaccine wont be required, without one we never go back to normal. With this change in emphasis the rest of the article becomes nonsensical.
If Covid 19 disappears we don’t need a vaccine
Just saying…..
Epidemiologists tell me it will go away of its own accord, eventually
So your amendment to the article makes no sense
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/05/profiting-from-coronavirus/
@ Ian Gibson
Pace Gary Gill, above, there is this further post from Craig Murray to amplify your point:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/05/why-barnard-castle/?fbclid=IwAR0kWIc0C1YUCONMs7gGL99el6LuVz_sRIDGjxQCnfegRQLdV_yrbfJUdOc
I don’t think they’re that clever.
Then you are probably underestimating them.
AstraZeneca’s operating profits have declined from USD 12,795 million in 2011 to USD 2.924 million in 2019 (https://www.statista.com/statistics/266544/astrazeneca-operating-profit-since-2006). It would be churlish to think there could possibly be any connection between this and the opportunity presented by selling a vaccine for a global pandemic.
Churlish? I don’t think so …..
I was being sarcastic – lol
In normal times I might say you’re being crazily paranoid Richard but who knows at the moment. It could be one form of disaster capitalism. A couple of thoughts:
1. Does this show that AstraZeneca want to get the vaccine to market in the rich Western countries while they have the chance – to hell with the parts of the world that couldn’t pay for it anyway. (There’s still plenty of the virus out there if all you needed was to thoroughly test it and then get it to everyone who could benefit at minimal cost.)
2. If the Cummings pantomime is part of this strategy, it’s hard to see how he can avoid resigning anyway. Unless the plan is to keep his job in the background but “officially” resign.
In normal times I would nit gave thought this
Now I just do not know….
Hi Richard,
I understand your point about government feathering the nests of their friends in business and don’t disagree with it, however, Pascal Soriot stated that AstraZeneca will be selling the vaccine at cost. Forgive my ignorance/naivety, but would that suggest in their case at least, that profiteering is not a factor?
I know you mentioned in a previous post about the need to ensure companies don’t profit from an increase in their business where they are providing essential products or services relating to the current situation. It sounds on the face of it that AstraZeneca aren’t doing so. Who know’s whether that’s by choice or not.
Ah, but what is cost?
As an accountant, I promise you I can make it almost anything you like
This is fun. I think you’re one foot in consensus reality and one foot out.
Of course everything is this corrupt. This is the nature of power. We can never know exactly what’s going on but it becomes increasingly clear that this level of soulless pursuing of self-interest is normal among the people in power.
Once you realise that it’s entirely plausible that the people in government would let thousands of people die so that someone can make a buck or trillion and that they will kill their own subjects as callously as Libyans, Iraqis and Yemenis, you aren’t the same.
Interesting discussion and debate. But as a Scientist you have to take a longer term view and understand what most vaccine development is about.
The worry of not having enough patients to test vaccines on is less to do with profit and more to do with reputation and a full understanding of the immunology. If we fail to understand how to treat this novel virus the consequence of a second seasonal wave of infections will result in a repeat of no treatment being available and our only tool will be more economically crippling lockdowns in the future.
The lack of patients in a vaccine development is a major problem as it results in testing health people by challenging their immune system with controlled level of the virus to see if your vaccine is working over a long period of time. When the virus is this deadly then there are high ethical and safety issues.
It has been nearly 40 years of research and we still have no vaccine against HIV and I am not sure the pharmaceutical industry can afford to not understand SARS-COV2 and possible future mutated version.
Yes money will be made but not off the back of this round of vaccination as this is likely to be a break even or loss exercise. A companies reputation value that they have the understanding of how to prevent and development vaccines for future infections is more of a corporate goal with the scientific community goals of having at least some future tools to tackle this in the long term.
Noted
You beat me to it but expressed it better than i could. I heard this concern, lack of cases, expressed by researchers at Oxford i think a few weeks ago.
If you did your research properly you would see that AstraZeneca will manufacture the vaccine at cost. They will not profit financially.
And what is cost?
What disappoints me about all this is that the questions I raised on an earlier thread on here are not being answered or asked.
There are just too many unknowns for my liking.
Isn’t that where we are?
No, we still don’t know how many people have died OF Covid-19, In my opinion, this is important to see what we are dealing with.
We still don’t know about a review of the emergency legislation when things move on.
We don’t know what plans are for businesses that won’t survive with social distancing.
There is no plan for education going forward.
There are murmurings that we may never have a vaccine, and that we may have to live with Covid-19.
That I can believe, and I think the message is slowly being put out there.
In my opinion, I can see this happening, we will be given guidelines, keep healthy, wash hands, don’t touch your face etc…
If you don’t, well, we provided guidelines, if you sadly become ill, and in the worst case scenario you pass away, well did you follow the guidelines?
If not, well, that is your lookout.
I think many people are hoping the risk and symptoms will reduce to that of a bad case of flu, not deadly to those that are healthy, but as with most illness that is a risk to high risk persons, well, they must “Stay Alert”
Even if the virus is insufficiently prevalent here for the vaccine to be trialed rigorously, there are other countries where it will still be rampant for some time. Must it be British vaccines for British blood?
Agreed, which makes the concern even more valid
It occurred to me that given a vaccine will be shared with the world, then the world might want to help the scientists? Brazil, Russia and India’s cases are on the rise. I am pretty sure Oxford scientists have friends in at least one of these countries. Given how clinical trials work, they’d probably have to put another one together, but could use results from current trial and start at a more advanced level.
The idea that we need Covid 19 here alone is rather odd…
Don’t get paranoid. There interests and ours are pretty much aligned here.
Even if Astra Zeneca’s motive was profit, that would be fine. That means they’ve developed something we want and are prepared to pay for (though note what others say about it being done at cost)
If there aren’t enough people with the virus to test a vaccine, we don’t get one (unless they test somewhere where there are, or deliberately expose people which raises other ethical issues). The only reason the number of people with the virus is reducing is lockdown.
If we don’t get a vaccine, the only tools we have are track and trace, and lockdown. That is, we change the way we live pretty much permanently.
So, hope that they can solve the problem and find a way of testing the vaccine.
Paul
And will the vaccine work next time?
I think that this sort thing is indicative of the lack of trust that is the result of porkies that have been told by this Government.
What is it that they say? ‘When you piss into the wind, it comes back at you twice as hard’. Boris, Cummings and Co could have avoided this. They are asking for it, even if it is not true. Many of us have lost trust in them.
But also, when one considers that a conscious decision was made to send the elderly back to care homes without waiting for Covid test results…………….well to me, that means that this ‘Government’ is capable of anything, no matter how outrageous.
I think that Boris’ mindset is at work here. He imagines himself as Churchill – facing THE threat of these times (as the Nazis were in WWII) and kids himself that he too must make ‘difficult decisions’ that will mean the deaths of thousands for some greater good and that the sacrifice will be worth it – this is why he pretends to be at war, hence the language he uses.
You know, to the Tories, we just might as well be ants – small things to be expended, trodden on, to cover up their cruelty and sense of entitlement. I stick to my view that far from being useless, everything they do is deliberate. I think that they are having the time of their life.
I suspect there will be a sufficiently large number of infected Americans to test a vaccine on.
You do know that they are producing this vaccine under a bit for profit agreement?
Also we don’t know if it will come back again seasonally like flu so they need to research now while cases still relatively high to see if effective.
A second wave in China is looking not that easy to control, chances are the scientific reserchers will have plenty fresh meat to test on in future,this virus is not going away anytime soon.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-20/china-sees-signs-new-cluster-carries-virus-longer-than-in-wuhan