It is now clear that Boris Johnson will seek to prorogue parliament to deny it the chance to debate alternatives to leaving the EU without a deal. I have already commented on this. But there is a dimension that needs to be specifically referred to.
Johnson is seeking to suspend the power of parliament to hold his government to account. He wishes to suspend the normal democratic process of the Crown in parliament as a result. It is my suggestion that his attempt to do so has to be challenged by the Crown, and in this case that does mean it has to be challenged, and denied, by the Queen.
It is often suggested that the Queen seeks to stay out of politics. That's nonsense. She has had weekly briefings from prime ministers for more than fifty years and is intimately involved in the political processes of this country. What this claim actually means is that she exercises power without apparently being accountable for it, which is something entirely different.
But on this occasion she cannot avoid responsibility precisely because her role is constitutional and it is the. constitution that is in jeopardy. She does, therefore, have to act. It is her duty to reject Johnson's call, which has the sole purpose of denying parliament its proper role.
If she does not do so then I think they days when she has a role are over.
And in that case there is no justification for the civil list.
Her Majesty should think long and hard: I'd suggest there is rather a lot at stake here for her and her legacy as well as the rest of us.
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Well, I concur with your view 100% except I will bet that she will roll over and agree to that suspension.
It is no surprise to me as I have said before; just when you think they have reach rock bottom they plumb new depths.
We have now reached the point where venting on social media, writing to MPs (yeah sure and in my case it’s Chope!), signing petitions, going on marches (and I’ve done all the above), looks pretty pointless.
The question is with so little time, people busy with everyday commitments, what in reality can the man/women on the street do to influence events? I suspect very little.
Keep yelling
Ask people in HongKong. They’re not exactly idle there either but they seem to know what to do.
No comment from me. The Queen, remembering the oath she swore to in 1953 at Westminster Abbey, is surely bound by her sense of duty to intervene.
Archbishop. Will you solemnly promise and swear to govern the Peoples of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland………………. according to their respective laws and customs?
Queen. I solemnly promise so to do.
Archbishop. Will you to your power cause Law and Justice, in Mercy, to be executed in all your judgements?
Queen. I will.
I rest many case…..
Mike : “According to their respective laws and customs” which laws and customs include doing exactly as you are told by the prime minister of the day.
It is amazing to see the outrage of experienced people who thought that the Queen would do anything other, than what she was told. That is what constitutional monarchy means in the UK. Glad to see the veil has dropped and more people hopefully realise we need a republic.
I do not believe she has always done what she has been told. Matters are much more subtle than that.
But I signed up for a Republic with Charter 88 back in 88 and I retain the desire now
Think you will have a hard getting the civil list abolished, chap.
Mr T says:
“Think you will have a hard getting the civil list abolished, chap.”
‘Chap’. !!
Course it’ll be difficult, but it’s well overdue and at the moment not really our biggest problem, toff. 🙂
Farage and his dupes have a lot to answer for…
The idiots really are in charge of the asylum.
Still, at least we can see the king now realises that he is naked.
There is one hope left and it is not the Queen, it is John Bercow…
I think you’re clutching at straws here – even if there is a compelling justification for why parliament should not be suspended at this moment of national crisis, it seems very unlikely to me indeed that the Queen will act contrary to the advice/request of the PM.
Wanting to avoid direct intervention that would explicitly undermine the PM and his government will surely be given greater weight by the Queen than any wider considerations around what might best serve the national interest.
The monarchy has signed it’s death warrant as an institution
The Monarchy has been always about pantomime and theatre, waving at cult followers, its just bread and circuses stuff, the Windsors are really only interested in preserving their own luxurious and privileged lives, special rights, power, and lots of free public money for their so-called public service.
I must say, I agree, Richard.
The Queen simply has to understand that the future of her dynasty – well UK monarchy in general – rests on her making the right decision now.
She is in the position that Charles l found himself in late 1641, when he failed to understand that “everything must change, if everything is to stay the same”: Charles l was trying to save absolute monarchy when he could have preserved constitutional monarchy, close to that his son inherited in 1660.
The Queen, by contrast is now faced with a “make or break” decision on her whole role in the constitution: if she can’t step up to the plate now, what’s the point of the monarchy?
And the Queen also needs to understand that if the monarchy is jettisoned there will be no later Restoration.
Why? Because, reviewing the past 9 years, we’re already at the 1658 to 1660 stage: the ineffable David Cameron played the Charles l part, with his arrogant superiority, and by complacently calling a Referendum he assumed he’d win easily. And when he lost, took the option Charles l probably should have taken, and ran away.
He was succeeded by May, who played the role of the unpopular Commonwealth, and squandered the goodwill she could have garnered, by her intransigence and authoritarian reflexes.
So the country has already been through the process of gradual disillusionment that led to the desire for a Restoration, a desire that was strengthened and validated by the chaotic rule of Cromwell’s son, Richard – “Tumbledown Dick”.
For that is who Johnson resembles – a chaotic, disorganised “Tumbledown Dick”, a would-be authoritarian, trying to walk the stage as a Supremo, with a majority of 1 in Parliament.
The people have had enough of Tumbledown Dick Johnson, and the only Restoration they are after is that of proper, constitutional democracy.
The Queen has a choice – opt for constitutional democracy, or an eventual Republic, the other side of the upheavals ahead of us.
For civil war – hopefully of a civil disobedience nature, but there’s no guarantee of it, given Johnson’s feudal reflexes – is ahead of us, until we the people manage to reassert control.
Don’t panic!
In fact I believe this is a panic reaction by the ‘THEM’.
Such a ‘coup’ at Empires centre implies a loss of control of long owned political forces by the perma-state aristos and bankers.
‘Normally’ in ‘far of countries’ such new politics is usurped by military forces controlled by the ancient martial family thugs and their empire barons. Post such coups the period to the next ‘free’ elections is the yardstick of the ‘democratic’ intent of the coup organisers usually after all unwanted leaders are imprisoned/exiled/killed and the political organisations are made illegal and disbanded with mass and deadly civil violence – basically mass disenfranchisement – then once again a hobsons choice of frontmen/women are presented to restore a ‘freely elected government’.
The top-down status quo is thus always maintained via the artifice of the ‘left-right’ division of the populace.
We aren’t Thailand, for example or even Catalonia. We are THE epicentre of the empire. The mandarins have their lives and estates here.
They were threatened by continued membership of the EU – which they gatecrashed us into 50 years ago, knowing exactly where the EU was heading explicitly – for only one reason, to stop the EU developing as planned. All would have been done and dusted by March 29th by the government of the day be it Tory or NuLabInc or the other controlled politicians in some coalition post another sham election.
BUT. They haven’t been able to do that while a Corbynite Labour Party, uncontrolled for the first time in half a century, looks certain to win and win big. No electoral skullduggery or vote stuffing regularly practiced in far off places can so punitively be implemented here – We still think we are free!
So what is their plan?
The Queen? She does what the Crown tells her to do.
A national emergency? But we won’t have a crisis unless a hard brexit HAPPENS.
And then that powerful bovine can be foisted upon the nation WITHOUT an election. A gnu.
And voila! A hard brexit and no Corbyn in No 10! A victory snatched from the jaws of defeat worthy of Ben Stokesian proportions.
Here are a couple of brexit stories from Consortium and Off-G which both seemed to grate with me in someway.
The comments (i’ve been particularly busy on O-G) on both are revelatory to what is being deployed in this escape to victory final battle.
https://off-guardian.org/2019/08/24/the-brexit-vote-and-psephology-of-the-outer-party/
https://consortiumnews.com/2019/08/26/brexit-the-madness-of-the-sovereign-individual/
I think she will reject – and that rejection is intended. Or at the very, very least, largely intended having a just in case punt. Johnson’s plot is to take No Deal to the hilt but it’s disingenuous. He is chasing failure on purpose but has to be seen to ‘be robbed of Brexit’. This scenario is all about making the smoke as smokey as possible before he calls the election and frames it all on emotion with Farage throwing arrows from side.
All planned to frame an election on .. without that contrived framing, they have no creditable record and hence no framework whatsoever.
And here’s the rub with the Royals: the Queen is intentionally brought in to the plot to be derided when she stops the current part of the ruse, because the (Murdochian) mindset that created Brexit over decades also had/has the abolition of the Royals in its sights.
As with Brexit, emotion is going to be stirred up where a radical change potentially to get approval across the political spectrum is steered into it being solely geared to the wishes of the far right.
Les J says:
“……. the (Murdochian) mindset that created Brexit over decades also had/has the abolition of the Royals in its sights.”
Well, that’s an interesting viewpoint. I find it hard to detect a rational motive in that…… , but I’m not saying you are wrong.
I’ll have to think about that.
I think the Queen has to act on the best advice she is given. She receives that advice from the Privy Council. The PC does contain a lot of hardened Brexiteers, not least Johnson himself; however, there are a significant number of people with wiser heads including all her ex-PMs who oppose Johnson’s reckless request. I have to hope that on hearing the advice of the PC that Her Maj will say to her new PM: “Mr Johnson, the advice I have obtained from my most trusted Privy Councillors is that you are trying to deny a voice to the representatives of the people. I suggest you go back to Parliament and talk to the MPs and Lords. If they agree by majority to your suggestion, I will grant you prorogation and will further agree to attend Parliament’s re-opening at the appropriate time. If they do not agree, then I suggest you talk to them some more until they come around to your way of thinking. Don’t kick the Corgis on the way out. Good day.”
One can hope. One can hope.
She failed us
From being a luke-warm monarchist (“It has its uses – tourism, pageantry, history, and an alleged constitutional backstop”) I’m now a republican (lower case, to avoid mistaken identity with Mafioso quasi-religious US Republicans).
No backstop, no point.
Agreed
Sadly it appears she rolled over…
(3:10pm) Forget my last message… the deed is done. Her Maj has agreed prorogation.
Farewell to the crown..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XmNNb63TVo&list=RD4XmNNb63TVo&start_radio=1
If only.
Well Scotland has the reputation of welcoming all if they get kicked out, but I wonder if we could make an exception in their case?
Whatever decision she took, would risk precipitating a Constitutional crisis. Its another illustration of the situation that the UK finds itself in. A 93 year old Head of State, whom nobody elected and nobody can remove is not a fit and proper person to take decisions of this magnitude.
I have always been sceptical of Monarchy as an institution, but only recently moved to a position of Republicanism (in the generic, not the Irish sense of the word!). During the Irish War of Independence, my father’s side of the family migrated to Northern Ireland in 1921, but retained a strong ethos of being Irish Protestants and Irish Unionists, rather than the Ulster variety.
I think back to Her Majesty’s state visit to Ireland in 2011 and her address at the state banquet, which I watched on Ulster Television (which I could just have easily decided not to watch). It was an occasion when I felt she spoke both for me and to me.
The past is another country….
The beginning of the end of the united kingdom.
No surprises there then.
Next, this outcome will be billed as a ‘People’s Prorogue’ or even with the Queen involved as a ‘People’s queen’ (not quite as snappy as ‘People’s Princess’ I know). With the right wing press, aided by a – at best – supine BBC who in remain areas manage to only find leave voters to interview – it is as good as done and dusted.
If the objective is to force a GE it will be pitched as ‘People vs Politicians’. Unless those against this travesty of democracy get organised PDQ we are sunk!
Overall, a good example of Overton’s Window in practice.
You think the Queen has a choice? I am not sure any monarch has ever really had free will, have they? Not since maybe Henry VIII? A very well paid figurehead, but not one that really makes the choices. Hah, romanticising royalty! No, she’s not the one in control, as demonstrated, you’ll get no help from that quarter.
I have to disagree
I think they might have exercised considerable influence and that represents choice
I will be writing to Lizzie this week to tell her what I think of her actions. Make no mistake.
She has contributed to making the lives of her subjects much harder, and ensuring that her country even more than before loses its sovereignty to the USA – more than any loss we ever allegedly suffered as part of the EU.
She and the Monarchy has no case to be allowed to exist from today. At least this episode serves to remind us what a constitutional dead end the monarchy is.
Pathetic.
Monarchy over? So there is a silver lining to this coup after all….
And maybe after the heat has gone, some sensible Parliamentarians and Lawyers might put pen to paper and decide to write down that English Constitution. Because by then, that’s what they’ll have to call it.
So, the queen has said “Yes” to the advice of her prime minister to prorogue parliament.
It is now hard to imagine any circumstances in which she would say “No”, isn’t it?
So, what’s the point of her?
As I was once told: “Your Yeses mean nothing if you never say No”.
There is no remaining point to her
The monarchy has to go
Apart from the PC who has Betty’s ear…?
Marie
It’s only a silver lining if we can stop this mess. And that’s a big if. If this ERG led Government gets its way, the monarchy will be rewarded and further dug in like ticks to uphold the new reality.
With all this talk of back stops in Ireland – well where is the English constitutional back stop? It certainly is not Elizabeth II who could and SHOULD have said something about this and declined to do anything.
As for Contrary:
She could have declined. She could have stayed silent and unresponsive. Imagine the impact that might have had? And what would the ERG have done – asked her to sign own death warrant? Put her in the Tower?
Anyhow, I’m off to a write a certain letter or two (Lizzie and certain Mr Speaker who needs some moral support) and no doubt looking for demonstrations to attend. I suggest we all do the same. Time is tight.