This was extracted from the near two hour hearing in the Scottish Parliament I attended this morning.
I am pleased the members and Chair allowed themes to develop. If Alex Cobham and I had one overwhelming theme it was that Scotland needs data and has not got it. There was no dissent anywhere in the room.
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Thank you! Really interesting, and I suppose our obsession stems from a country now gripped by the constitutional question. Opponents to independence always jump on us independence supporters, as deluded or brainwashed on the viability issue.
The truth is, many of us would not support our country’s independence, if we thought we would be worse off.
Obviously, it’s been a huge stick used by unionists to scaremongering, and any outside opinions, input are welcomed, and I’m glad you made the time to attend Holyrood.
I have been invited to do a bit more thinking on the Scottish tax system and suspect I will do so
I really enjoyed watching this today.
Good points were made by all, but especially by you and Alex Cobham. I felt the CIT and ICAS representatives were somewhat less coherent. John Cullinane did raise one or two good points (but in his usual “don’t frighten the horses” way).
Covering the points about our very limited tax powers was particularly useful, especially the booby trap issue. The SNP agreed to the terms of the Smith Commission, so it will remain as a political issue – a weak one in my view as the pressure to agree something was immense. The other parties fought extremely hard to deny Scotland real power, especially the Labour party. Areas like employment law were ruled out, which limits what can be done in the softer areas that were discussed today.
I certainly hope your involvement will continue.
Thanks
I suspect I will be in Scotland again soon
Could Scotland survive as an independent country? Of course it could. Would it be better off as a result? The answer to that ( the honest one ) is no one really knows. It would not be anywhere near as bad as the Unionists predict nor as rosy as the Nationalsts claim.
In the end it will be down to the pragmatic voters. As a Scot I am not particularly concerned if we are independent or not – to some it does matter and I admit I struggle to understand the dogmatic passion of either faction.
Your first para is right
Can Scotland survive? Of course it can. As long as it has its own currency
The self determination aspect is the overriding desire rather than any claim to being better off. However being worse off is a direct stimulant to caution. The fear campaign will always pitch this and the challenge is not economic but psychological. Irrespective of the technical challenge a people must have the sense of determining themselves. Within the what is known as the UK this continues to be contested. That contestation is a symptom of the corrupt core that lies at the heart of the concept of UK. It is a system of dominance and is as ‘nationalistic’ as any other competing ‘ism. Labour has either learned nothing from the debacle of the referendum and places itself in the unionist camp or it has nothing to learn because it is a unionist agent, i.e. a competing nationalist thesis. The Scots would be free to collaborate with all the peoples of these islands, and would most likely do so. While they are ‘dominated’ by competing nationalists the contest will continue.
“Richard Murphy says
Can Scotland survive [as an independent country]? Of course it can. As long as it has its own currency”
Just so that I am fully armed when debating with others, do you mean Scotland should adopt the Euro and be in the EU or have a completely separate currency (the Scottish dollar?!)and be in the EU?
Many thanks.
A separate currency
The vast majority of people want independence whether or not we will be better off because independence will give us the ability to design our own mechanism for making people better off whereas as long as another country controls our affairs we cannot make the decisions and implement the changes that will do so.
Vast majority ? You sure about that – last referendum did not indicate that to be the case. The next one ( referendum that is ) will likely be just as close. So the end result will be about half the electorate either way not very chuffed about the outcome. Bit like Brexit – the curse of referendums if you like.
But you prove my point – Nationalists want independence whatever the economic outcome , nothing wrong with that view if you are a Nationalist but do not assume the ‘vast majority’ agree with you.
Good stuff. Well worth listening to. Is the whole thing available online somewhere?
I will post when I can
It’s available at the Scottish Parliament now –
http://www.scottishparliament.tv/Archive?Area=&categoryId=adf12acf-2cad-492c-8c5b-538e04973a86&parentCategoryClicked=False&pageNumber=1&orderByField=ScheduledStart&queryOrder=DESC
Thank you for that Mr. Murphy. Much appreciated.
Richard thank you so much. Your unbiased input has, and will no doubt continue to be, much appreciated. Not only by Scottish Government but also by voters who [hopefully] will see the quality of information available improve.
Whilst I entirely agree with the sovereign currency ideas, I struggle to believe Scotland is really better off alone.
The basics of a nation state are normally reckoned to be defence and justice. And Scotland would certainly struggle with defence if it was independant especilly with a land border with England.
Look at dearth of defence in the Irish Republic where, internationally, they seem to be wholly dependant on the UK. They also have prescious few Embassies – for example.
But at least Eire is in the EU.
I’d suggest that for the best national outcome there is a certain critical mass required. So for example, thinking randomly, that is perhaps why Björk is so British orientated.
It is certainly logical for Scotland to want to be rid of Tory England and still keep the warm but more distant embrace of the EU. But with 3-4million next to a country of 55million it is going to be far from ideal. Rather like the the UK Brexit position of being ‘independant’ next to a market of 550million.
And I think Scottish reality should be no more different than UK reality.
I’m not sure I understood your argument entirely but I’d be interested in your views regarding the “basics of a nation state” in respect of Belgium, The Netherlands, Denmark, Switzerland, Norway, Estonia, Latvia,…..need I go on?
Scotland does not need the kind off “defence” it “pays for” currently and therefore after independence will spend much less on that budget.
If you believe the World is out to get you you’re not “probably right” as the saying goes.. you’re paranoid.
This is not related to the post. However it maybe of interest – it’s to do with the review concerning MPs having second jobs.
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/mps-outside-interests-cspl-review
There is a form that can be filled in from those interested in providing suggestions.
Submissions to be made by the 28th April.
[…] posted a clip from the session I took part in on the foundations of Scottish tax at Holyrood yesterday afternoon. […]
[…] You can listen to him yourself via his blogpost here. […]
Thanks Richard – very clear. I take your points absolutely about estimates based on simple allocation. However, and this in no way challenges your central point which is that Scotland (and the other devolved governments and the English Regions) need their own good data, Scotland is a deindustrialized industrial country and the financial services sector which was supposed to replace the tax base from industrial employment has been a massive destroyer of resources rather than contributor to them. Scotland certainly has done well under Barnett allocation of funding (unless you buy the rentier argument that it was always Scotland’s Oil and Scotland’s alone in what is still a United Kingdom) and even with devo Max the SNP government has been handed a poisoned chalice of trying to fund welfare capitalism with a shrinking tax base and Oil not what it was at all. So yes please good data and you made your point absolutely but the fundamental issue remains. I actually support independence more or less but a welfare capitalism in Scotland will require a very different approach to taxation and industrial policy from the SNP and the membership of the Scottish Council of Economic Advisors does not indicate to me that that is likely.
I don’t disagree with any of those last comments David
Many know it in Scotland as well, and are worried about it
Great to hear someone speak up in Scotland’s defence for a change.
Appreciated!