The FT reports this morning that:
Spain could use the issue of Gibraltar to hold the UK “hostage” in the end game of Brexit negotiations, threatening business with serious disruption, according to William Hague, the former foreign secretary.
Lord Hague told an audience of manufacturers it was vital that Britain and the EU agreed a transitional deal to maintain trading links in the event of a crisis at the end of two years of formal Brexit talks.
I am not surprised that William Hague said this. He is a man who seemed to be born long after his time, and is utterly dedicated to that earlier era to which he so clearly belongs. What is more, he is a man who always managed to get his priorities wrong.
So here he dedicates himself to a British settlement established by force in 1713. Gibraltar did undoubtedly serve UK strategic purposes, especially as a naval base, for long periods. But let's not pretend that at a time when the navy has ever fewer ships, most of which are tied up in Portsmouth most of the time because there's no money to let them mve, that this remains the case. I also suspect the RAF presence is little more than a Tiger Moth.
In that case Gibraltar is an outpost of an era that still exists only in the minds of the likes of William Hague. It's a remnant of Empire and colonialism that has no place in a modern Europe, in which the UK apparently wants no part. And it is funded by its activity as a tax haven and centre for offshore gambling. The first activity is intent on undermining the global economy and the legitimate tax revenues of democratically elected governments. The other is wedded to destroying individual lives. Quite emphatically, this is a place that is dedicated undermining well-being.
I am not keen on Brexit. Nor is Spain, and it owes us nothing on Gibraltar. Of course it will try to use it as a bargaining tool. And so it should. The anachronism of Gibraltar's status should come to an end. It's own abuse of its status only adds weight to the argument.
It's time for the UK to say goodbye to Gibraltar.
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Do you do any research at all or is writing for you the equivalent of an involuntary body movement?
Quite a Lott research
And a fair amount of formed comment as well, that cuts through the crap
Mr Murphy
You have an opinion wbich I respect but certainly do not share.
Firstly I suppose that you can critcise how Gibraltar generates its income since England lives exclusively from agriculture i.e. City of London. You must be joking!
Secondly, following your geopolitical assumption we could hand Gibraltar to Spain so that our BRITISH LOVING FRIENDS the Russian Fleet can now refuel on both sides of the straits and have free passage anytime through the MED. Not too sure Whitehall would be too keen.
I note what you say
I also note how bizarre it is
“Quite a Lott research And a fair amount of formed comment as well, that cuts through the crap” – your ignorance of economic matters is, I see, surpassed by your poor language skills. You are a sad guy Richard. I feel sorry for you.
With over 100 comments some I have not had time to spell check
Does that make me sad?
I think you do really need to get a life and an argument
The UK government recently published a job advert asking for someone to work on the island of Gibraltar, indicating that perhaps they need to do a little research themselves!
Mr Murphy
Sorry you note my comment as bizarre
The tax haven in the heart of Britain
There is an institution with a murky history and remarkable powers that acts like a political and financial island within our island nation state. Welcome to the Square Mile and the City of London Corporation.
article from the NewStateman.
Suppose The Admiral Kutnesov its flotilla along the English Channel and all the Russian aircraft incursions into UK airspace as reported by British press are also quite bizarre. Is UK prepared to let Gibraltar go…..who knows?
I would say that it is equally as bizarre as someone defending fair taxation systems working precisely from within the City of London.
Then again Mr Murphy its just my humble opinion.
I am well aware of the City of London
And the recent Repussian fleet manoeuvres
Neither gave any bearing on the points I made
I was talking about Gibraltar. The Russian fleet need never have called and it is not in London
Mr Murphy,
You do undervalue Gibraltar’s current strategic importance in your analysis (out dated outpost)based on unprofessional and unsubstantiated comments.
and
you do accuse Gibraltar of undermining global economy through its taxation practices.
hence the points brought up involving the current UK military affairs and England’s dependency on financial services offered from the City of London.
So I believe they have bearing on your points whether you like it or not sir.
With regards to your Gibraltar accusations charity begins at home Mr Murphy.
If I may, I’ll finish with a Tolstoy quote.
“Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself”.
Good luck with your book and good day to you.
Ever heard about democracy, Mr Murphy? … the people of Gibraltar have expressed a firm desire to remain British. I was under the impression that in the United Kingdom, respect for Human rights were paramount. I daresay you could find far more Tax avoidance and financial peccadilloes in the City of London than in Gibraltar, and why should the Online Gambling trade be more acceptable in any other location than Gibraltar?. It should be noted that where financial shady deals come to light, Gibraltar shines by it’s absence in the headlines.
If my household had its way in a free vote I am fairly sure we would not see Theresa May in office
What’s the relevance of that? Sample size, and structure
Gibraltar can vote as it wishes but it is a dependency (or OT to be precise) and not a country and it should be given the weight afforded to a UK parliamentary constituency as a result ( and remember for EU purposes, it is a part of a UK constituency)
So the people of Gibraltar can of course speak but let’s be clear that the opinion offered is just noise amongst many other opinions, and nothing more
It amuses me that the Gibraltar parliamentary constituency is in the same South West region as me – which voted overwhelmingly for Brexit (as did I in fact but not for the same right-wing reasons).
52% of those that voted – hardly overwhelming
Good luck telling that to the people of Gibraltar.
I’d happily say it
Richard Murphy you are a sick person and a wanker
Do you have the qualifications or evidence to offer that opinion?
any chance you can go there in person to say it, & can we watch see what happens, I’ve already bought the popcorn
I would come
Unfortunate verb, Richard, given the insult…
What are the views of the people of Gibraltar and of their government?
I know they wish to be British
But I weight that as much as I weight the opinion if any part of the U.K.
Excepting the fact that in so many ways wants all the benefits and none of the obligations of being in
I am not sure I understand your point. Are you saying that the uk government should have the ability to turf out of the Union any parliamentary constituency whom it pleases?
Very clearly the UK has the right to sever relationships with parts of the Union and other territories it controls
That’s not very hard to work out, is it?
MR MURPHY I will make one thing very clear to you we are british in gibraltar uk and I will like if you could explain to everyone what benefits and obligation do you mean?because it seems to me and I am sure it does to others as well that you have forgotten that the british commonwealth and including gibraltar fought and gave their tomorrow in two world wars so people like you could use freedom of speech to say such a lot of nonsense
Respectfully, if you’re British stop pretending you are also a tax haven and follow UK law
If you don’t, in the terms I am using you are not British: you are Gibraltarian and we can choose to say goodbye if we wish
Which us what you’re petrified of
You want to be British and abuse us at the same time
It’s not just a matter of wishing to be British – we are British
Then give up the tax haven
And accept UK standards
just repeating tax haven over and over again does not make it so. Gibraltar is not a tax haven, unless you would class London, Dublin as such. Again we are British, but not part of the U.K. We work to the same standards as the U.K. I.e. EU standards
Respectfully, that’s what all tax havens say
And saying you’re not a murderer because others have murdered does not stop you being a murderer
It just means more than one has committed the crime
So it is here
And to change the subject, if you’re not part of the UK we can say goodbye whenever we like
It takes two to tango
Go and see Gib for yourself. Your comment about the RAF shows you know little about the place. The people are more British than we are.. it’s not a matter of them wanting to be.
I assume as an accountant you know very little about military strategy and the importance Gibraltar plays, and for that you can be forgiven. I know little about how to cook books. Go and meet the people and see for yourself. You are of course entitled to your opinion but you will find you are in a minority.
I was right about the RAF: as they say:
———–
Royal Air Force Gibraltar is a unique station situated in the shadow of the Rock adjacent to the border with Spain. The airfield was built at the start of the Second World War and is an integral part of Gibraltarian life as the only road into Spain crosses the runway.
Today there are no military aircraft permanently based at RAF Gibraltar, however, the Station remains at extremely high readiness to support UK military operations.
—–
So my suggestion that there were just Tiger Moths was a little facetious but entirely accurate
And for the record one of my uncles was a senior officer there once – I learned about its irrelevance a long time ago from a good source
I am quite well informed despite local suggestions
Yes, the Age of Empire is alive and well in Hague, and of course in Fox, Johnson, Gove and most of the rest of the Tory Party. It does make me wonder how someone like Sarah Wollaston, who is clearly nobody’s fool, aligns herself with this bunch of political zombies.
One doubts that she and others will for very much longer. Split ahoy 🙂
What a load of garbage. Gibraltar is as British as Plymouth, and although the Navy is not as mighty as it once was, would you consider surrendering it to a foreign power? The rest of your comments just show your total ignorance of the subject matter.
Respectfully, that is very clearly not true
Plymouth is not subject to separate tax laws and as a result it does not undermine UK government revenues and UK gambling regulation
So, if you’re in use UK laws in all respects
If you don’t then accept you’re apart and that the semi-detached choice that’s been made is severable when required
Which UK laws? Those of England & Wales, or of Scotland, or of Northern Ireland?
Tax law is of the UK
Apart from the Scottish tax laws, which are different and provide for Scotland to enter into tax competition with the rest of the UK… 🙂
Within extraordinarily constrained circumstances, most of which Scotland has chosen not to go near
But I knew I could rely on you to get that wrong Andrew
I am not sure how Gibraltar can undermine UK gambling regulation because as I understand it any Gibraltar e-gaming companies offering gambling to UK residents are required to have a UK gambling license in addition to the gambling license they hold in Gibraltar.
I think you are taking a decidedly simplistic view of what happened here
Typical Saxonat mentality. Why are you so concerned about Gibraltar’s future, anyway ? Good job the majority of Brits have been properly educated and know their history.
I have no clue what you mean
https://www.thelocal.es/20160607/if-brexit-happens-spain-offers-joint-gibraltar-sovereignty
Let them have it. After all, there is a question of legality:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputed_status_of_the_isthmus_between_Gibraltar_and_Spain
AND, Spain can have the City of London..the entire square mile!!
BONUS, two pains in the butt gone!
Mr Murphy obviously you do not believe in the right of self determination which is the most important factor in determining the future of Gibraltar. May I suggest to you that before you form an opinion on Gibraltar you should have the decency to come to Gibraltar and get the views of the people of Gibraltar.
I know the views of the people of Gibraltar and weight them as much as I do the people of Barnsley on this issue
You are not a country, whatever you might like to think
You are for now a rather uncomfortable part of the U.K. and so are 30,000 or so amongst 65 million on this issue
I’m sorry Bwana if we are a source of discomfort, I hope it was not too uncomfortable when we were needed in the past by Britain
You may live in a time warp: I don’t
And candidly if you want to be in the EU find a new partner: we’re clearly not it
I did not say Spain was
As long as the UK government agrees to maintain the status quo, I don’t see the problem with Gibraltar remaining in its current situation.
There are far worse tax havens (de jure or de facto) around Europe (Luxembourg, Ireland, the Netherlands, each in their own specialised way) so this argument is irrelevant.
As for the gambling, it is now allowed pretty much anywhere on the content in one form or another, so removing it from Gibraltar will just mean moving it elsewhere (Malta springs to mind).
Spain has no moral high ground either, not until they keep their colonial remnants in Morocco anyway.
Ah, the old argument that my abuse should not be prosecuted because there are worse abusers than me
Try that next time you’re in court and see how far it gets you
You, by implication, plead guilty and prove my case
I live in London, not Gibraltar, so I have no plead to make 🙂
If we wanted to stay within the legal metaphor, though, surely we must proceed from the assumption that the rule of law must apply equally to everybody.
Hence, if we treat Gibraltar as a constituency and wish to expel it from the UK on the grounds of facilitating tax-dodging and gambling, surely we should do the same with every other UK constituency that does the same, including the City of London and all those places were gambling companies have their corporate headquarters (at the very least).
Also, we should immediately sever commercial and diplomatic ties with each and every foreign state that behaves in the same way: after all, a principle is a principle.
I use the constituency metaphor for those in Gibraltar who claim they are part of the U.K.
The reality, of course, is they are not. So w can sever the tie if we wish but they can’t plead Bitishness and yet sovereignty simultaneously to stay
They’re not claiming sovereignty, if they were, they would argue for independence from the UK. They are asking for self-determination, which is a rather different thing.
Even if they did find another partner, it would probably be someone else from the tax-dodging brigade, and British companies who dodge taxes there would simply carry on as usual.
I understand that they want to free-ride, seeking benefits without accepting obligations
Unsurprisingly that’s not a way to make yourself wildly popular
Mr Murphy i am surprised that an expert talking so knowledgable about Gibraltar has quite a few well known facts completely wrong, in the 1st place Gibraltar was captured in 1704′ which every school boy knows, 1713 it was ceded to Britain in perpetuity, never conquered for Britain but for Spain as part of the Spanish succession.( read up on it)
What evidence have you that it is a tax haven, do some research on what the EU says about Gibraltar on its tax laws etc and I am sure you we come out far cleaner than you think.
Gambling, please please, a very small country such as ours is a threat to the rest of the world that is rife with gambling throughout.
Stop talking about things you obviously know nothing about, and most importantly Gibraltar belongs to it people, so stop slagging off the Gibraltarians.
Of course you’re a tax haven http://www.financialsecrecyindex.com/PDF/Gibraltar.pdf
The rest of your claims are as ridiculous
No Mr Murphy it’s black and white what I state in treaties, history books and official documents, not baked ideas that you make up and make the assumption that everyone is stupid enough to believe your stupidity.
Stop being ridiculed by all the other comments, there is plenty of evidence to rebut you but I do not have the time or the inclination to play your stupid game,
Is that meant to be a serious comment?
I am discussing the political economy of today
If the UK can leave the EU and Scotland the Union I assure you all your sources, treaties and anything else count for nothing: all can be changed at will
I think you need to look at the world around you rather than rely on scraps of paper from the litter basket of history
We dont claim to be part of the UK
Werll, well. Some excited posters this morning and using a degree of intemperate language I’ve not seen here before. That’s a pity but, hey, free speech and all that. Obviously you touched a nerve. Your moderation shows Quaker tolerance. Not to mention the constitutional logic of your reasoning.
Just to say I’m with you 100%. How long will it take for England to get over its abusive, and in some cases even genocidal, colonial past? I fear not any time soon. It is a karmic curse that hinders progress. What goes around comes around. And while on the subject, what about the Malvinas – oops, sorry, the Falklands – plus the other 12 BOTs (13 incl. Gib.)? I wonder if anyone under the age of 50-ish really cares a toss any more – or even knows anything about how we acquired the Empire in the first place.
Isn’t Gibralta the centre of the tax-dodging online gambling industry? Nice business.
It is….
You lit the touch paper on this one, Richard. No doubt they’ll be hundreds of comments by the day’s end – or more likely the whole week!! Good job you didn’t mention the Falklands too.
I am awaiting the counter argument….
Yes I am awaiting your reply to my comment!!!
I have a life beyond this blog
There is no need to counter your argument as it is unfounded, fabricated and frankly slanderous. I am interested to know what aspect of our gaming industry contravenes any applicable tax laws.
It has undermined the UK’s laws
That is the allegation
Of course, Gibraltar can have self determination. But I don’t think that is quite what these hysterical lunatics above want. They want GB to make any and every sacrifice to give the Gibraltarians what they want. Unfortunately, the vote to leave the EU makes GB much less capable of doing this than we were a year ago. There are a lot of BRexit nationalists who still don’t get that their actions have weakened GB drastically on the world stage.
The counterargument is that Gib does not have the lowest tax regime in the eu. It has tax information exchange agreements with the majority of its eu partners. It has a presence from gaming due to it setting the high standards for gaming which in its infancy was of high disrepute. It has a benefit for marketing across the eu gutnlittle else financially.
So why stand behind Gib. Well the rights of man should come before all else. The sovereignty of Gibraltar should not be a negotiating tool and it is fundementally important that a British passport holder no matter where in the world should have their sovereignty respected. It is not Hague who has the outdated view but yourself who believes that our rights can be surrendered by a governing power over its colonial servants.
http://www.financialsecrecyindex.com/PDF/Gibraltar.pdf
For a person that has never been to Gibraltar, who seems to know little about the importance of security in the region, shows ignorance of its history and has little knowledge about its economy and it’s people, you are very quick to judge and condemn a little nation like Gibraltar with such diatribe
Whilst you keep referring to the 2015 Financial Secrecy Index (://www.financialsecrecyindex.com/PDF/Gibraltar.pdf) in your replies to comments, you are economical with your facts since Gibraltar is hardly the menace you make it out to be when it is ranked 55th out of 102 jurisdictions, ahead of other European jurisdictions such as Sweden, Italy, Spain, Iceland, Slovakia, Poland, Monaco, Czech Republic, Denmark, Hungary, Greece & Finland. So if by your libellous statement “this is a place that is dedicated undermining well-being”, then God help all the other jurisdictions ranked behind Gibraltar, when it’s their turn to receive your wrath or perhaps your hidden agenda will not take you elsewhere?
Your hostility and intolerance towards Gibraltar and its people, for whatever personal reason, is clearly there for everyone to see, but I’m sure that Gibraltar will not let a few small-minded bigots destroy the good image of it’s city Mr Murphy.
You can’t libel a state
Shall we move on?
Oh, and by the way, join the queue of places like Jersey, Guernsey, the Isle of Man, Cayman, BVI, Ireland, et al that think I have picked on them
That’s your paranoia. My concern is systemic
If you believe that the people of the United Kingdom should have just as much a say as to whether Gibraltar remains linked to the UK as Gibraltarians do then presumably in your opinion all of the UK should have voted in the Scottish Independence referendum and by extension all of the EU should have had a right to vote in Britain’s EU referendum. After all, the UK is only 65 million out of Europe’s 508 million inhabitants and the Brexit decision potentially impacts them all.
You’re clearly struggling with this idea of sovereignty and nationhood
Mr murphy are you accusing people or companies of tax evation because if you are why don’t you name them otherwise be a man and apologise to british gibraltar for your insulting behaviour
I guarantee Gibraltar is used for tax evasion
What is more I make it quite clear that it deliberately facilitates that opprtunity by providing corporate opacity
I offer no apology for saying so
Isn’t Ireland used for tax evasion?
So?
Yes
And so?
on what do.you base that guarantee?
Mr Murphy
I think your analysis on Gibraltar is not quite correct. In a comment above you stated you had done research on the matter but it is evident the quality of research is poor. You are quite correct in saying that “colonialism…has no place in a modern Europe” and the people of Gibraltar agree with that. However, I do not think you are quite aware of what colonialism is. Colonialism is the “subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation”. Colonialism is the fact the UN has failed to delist Gibraltar from the list of non-self governing territories when Gibraltar satisfies the criteria. Colonialism is the outdated Spanish claim over Gibraltar which “has no place in a modern Europe” – do you not think Spain would have accepted the UK’s invitation to resolve the matter in the ICJ if they had grounds? You may want to read up on the decision of the Court of Arbitration for Sport over Gibraltar. Gibraltar’s relationship with the UK, however, is non-colonial.
The people of Gibraltar have voted in two referenda to remain under the rule of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. Gibraltar is British by choice and not by force. It is far from the truth “to suggest that the people of Gibraltar are subjugated or exploited” by a Foreign Power. We have a mature and modern relationship with the UK and have more self-government than the devolved states of Scotland and Wales, ironic huh?
Tax Haven? – You forget that Gibraltar is also in the EU and, as a result, is subject to the same standards in respect of financial services as London, Frankfurt and so on. In addition, David Cameron in Parliament stated it was wrong to classify Gibraltar as a “tax haven” which was met with warm support by the Labour Opposition. Further, the financial secrecy index you provided is a poor analysis. Spain, for example, has a better secrecy score than the UK, yet their country is one of the most corrupt in Europe. With all do respect, I find your argument quite poor.
The future of the territory of Gibraltar is for the people of Gibraltar to decide. It is not Spain’s to take or the UK’s to give away.
I have dealt with all these issues already
The claim not to be a tax haven is laughable
The FSI is now the de facto measure of what tax havens are
On the contrary Mr Murphy, I think you have failed to address what I set out. If the FSI are is the “de facto measure of what tac havens are”, wouldn’t that make the UK one of the biggest tax havens? With all do respect, the only thing laughable is your analysis.
We say it is
But only because of its control of places like Gibraltar
Blaming overseas territories? It sure makes debates and avoiding questions easier when it’s someone else’s fault right?
So you don’t accept blame for being a tax haven?
Why not?
In denial?
Is the writer of this opinion piece a journalist ?! If so he should get his facts right first !!! No respect for
democracy whatsoever would make an excellent replacement for former Spanish foreign secretary Margallo !!!
No, I am Professor of Practice in International Political Economy, City, University of London
And author of the best selling academic book on tax havens
Seems you are not writing much these days other than answering Gibraltarian comments with unwitty punchlines without any substance whatsoever. You have a lot of free time.
I have just finished my new book on tax havens and and beginning major new EU funded research projects
I also deal politely with those who comment here
EU funded……bliss its good to be in
Just finished your book…..lets market the product…..creating controversy around Gibraltar…..you’ve never had so many comments in your life.
By discarding their rights you deal with them very politely.
Well done keep up the good work.
86 is modest to many posts
But don’t worry: I know you don’t know
Sorry meant to say avoidance
I have just seen the thread and realize he is not a journalist but a professor dear me !
A nutty undocumented professor at that who has an axe to grind !
This gentlemen is clearly as we would say “a big sipote” who gets his kick out of
provoking a response !
Best to ignore him just wants a bit of attention that’s all !!!
There is so much at stake over the deal between the UK and the EU for both sides, it is hard to see it floundering over something as small as the Gibraltar issue.
I can’t even see it as much of a bargaining chip.
It’s a pain, that’s all
And if Gibraltar had any sense they’d be applying to be an overseas territory of any one of 26 EU member states (the UK and Spain excluded)
That way they may just keep a border with Spain open
I bet none of those who have commented here have thought of that……
Wow now that really is an ignorant comment, you have absolutely no idea of the political situation vis-a-vis Uk-Gibraltar-Spain. Amazing!
Did I mention Spain?
Or did you read that in?
Mmmm, given the experience with British public opinion over the Falklands in 1982, I would have thought it would be a dumb move for Spain to try to play hardball over this.
Unless they want to stoke anti-Spanish public feeling within the UK. Which I don’t think they do.
And any British government which handed over under pressure would also get a hard time domestically.
I think 1982 a long time ago
But maybe it’s fair to say I didn’t get the Falkland logic then
I didn’t read into anything but on what you wrote “And if Gibraltar had any sense they’d be applying to be an overseas territory of any one of 26 EU member states (the UK and Spain excluded)”, which showed a total lack of knowledge on the subject matter of Gibraltar. Oh dear oh dear!
Actually, I think you’ll find I just solved your future
But you’re too blind to notcie
“Gibraltar will not pay the sovereignty price for access to a market”. There is no threat at the border and there will not be considering Gibraltar contributes to 25% of the economy to the “Campo de Gibraltar” area. You outline above that you want to see an end to colonialism but refer to a hypothetical closure in an alomost jokingly manner – is that no anachronistic?
Whatever happens, the people of Gibraltar will survive, as we did, and we will adapt. “If Brexit means Brexit, British means British, No means No, Never means Never, Gibraltar British forever!”
Of course there will be a hard border
That is inevitable
Why and how do you think otherwise? Despite promises Ireland knows it will have to happen. It will in Gib too
A hard border and a closed border are two different things. You alluded to a closure of the border with your comment, “may just keep a border with Spain open”
I think you’ll find a hard border with tariffs pretty tough
No point in responding to feed your ego !!!
You lack credibility, you haven’t researched the subject and then making slanderous comments about Gibraltar being a Centre for
tax evasion !!!
You are just a desperate soul seeking a bit of attention !!!
No, I have made serious observation
I need no attention
Please don’t give me any
This is even more amusing than the Jersey comments – because of the novelty;o}
The UK and Gibraltar provide for each other’s common defence. If that ended and Gibraltar came under attack from a power it did not invite, a lot of patriotic Brits would get there by hook, crook or boat with a cache of arms to get stuck in and lend support.
I wonder if Richard would brand such people terrorists in the same way as people who have gone to Syria to fight are jailed for terrorism if they return.
I think you are living a fantasy
There are plenty of people who think Gibraltar should not have the right to choose its own tax policies and live under its own laws. Including a few in Cambridgeshire, many in Spain and now some random member of the EU-26 is supposed to get involved apparently. The Gibraltarians beg to differ.
It’s still not clear though Richard who you blame for the Brexit vote. Do you blame the electors themselves, or the media ( dominated by the public sector BBC ), or the education system ( dominated by the public sector ) or scheming MPs on the Leave side who were in a minority of MPs overall but still elected nevertheless by the public?
And now it’s not clear whether you are blaming the elected British government for not cutting Gibraltar loose, or the Gibraltarians themselves for not electing to be cut loose.
By the way, that link to the financialsecrecyindex rankings has Gibraltar in the top half of the rankings for openness, or bottom half for secrecy, so if that is the gold standard for tax havens, it’s a standard based on fools’ gold.
If you really think the media is dominated by the BBC you reveal all your biases
And on that basis I really can’t be bothered to engage
There are debates worth having with people with arguments. You fail on both counts
Richard, I appreciate that you are discussing Gibraltar in relation to taxation but there are other important issues. It still does have an important role monitoring activity in The Strait (Spain and Morocco are also very active.)
I doubt that The Crown, MoD or GCHQ would consider losing this strategic observation and listening post.
I have worked there and in the main their business world works well and fairly, but like every other country, there are some dark corners.
I know you voted against Brexit but you are acutely aware of some of the unacceptable aspects of the EU structure. Sometimes there has to be compromise.
I was making clear Hague’s folly in putting the interests of Gibraltar ahead of people in the country
And candidly re monitoring, it’s quaint to think the UK is still a world power
It’s in the Championship already post Brexit and likely heading for League 1
Thinking that such monitoring is now an issue is a little bizarre given the other crises we are facing
Which was always my point although most here clearly do not get that, as all the references to Spain suggest. I was not saying we should give Gibraltar to Spain. But I would strongly suggest Gibraltar might want to look for another EU partner anyway or they are in deep trouble being linked to us
How will a hard border work?
Presumably the same way as a hard/soft? border in Ireland is intended to work – more fantasy – and Spain might be rather less cooperative.
According to John Rentoul of the Independent, one of Gove’s helpers has (anonymously) said that they weren’t meant to win, and quoted Michael Caines “You were only meant to blow the bloody doors off” – they wanted to scare the EU into offering greater concessions by it being a close vote.
Such touching romanticism from our right wing neoliberals…
Agreed
Ceuta and Melilla are a remnant of Spanish conquest and colonialism that has no place in a modern Europe, and should be given to a neighbouring country.
Agreed
The people of Gibraltar are of a mixed origin: British, Genoese, North African and Spanish. The Treaty of Utrech is sound with Spain clearly handing the Rock to Britain. The treaty also gave Minorca to the British. I cannot see why Spain has this obsession with this little place that is no threat to them and if anything a local economic help. It has been British for over 300 years, longer than what it was Spanish, who took it from the Moors. The Spanish should get over it after all this time. The United States did not exist when it became British. Not once has the UK used Gibraltar to invade Spain.
The Rock was taken by British and Dutch troops, led by an Austrian. The British wanted to get out and leave it to the Dutch, but the Dutch got rattled by that with the rock ending up in the hands of the British.
If the Gibraltarians want to stay British so be it. If they want to go then so be it. I have no problems either way. But the UK must not be bullied by Spain into giving sovereignty of the rock to them. It must a part of any Brexit leverage.
I am not saying anyone must be given to Spain
I am saying that the UK need not make Gib a priority
Because it isn’t for all the reasons I noted
If the French had captured Portland Bill in the 18th century and been awarded it in a treaty between Royal dynasties which no longer rule, and populated with, largely, people from their colonies, how would we regard it?
I can see why the Spanish object to it continuing to be a British territory.
Do we lose by insisting on sovereignty? Do we (ordinary people -not the banking minority ) gain anything by continuing ownership- other than imperial nostalgia ? I suspect the answer for most people posting here is about how they feel, rather than any rational and ethical judgement.
Why would the British object to a legal treaty? I do not see the French objecting over the Channel Islands. If the French legally had the Isle of Wight for 300 years I doubt anyone would object. The Spanish have had the longest bitch in history. I think it is embarrassing for them.
If you really think such matters are determined by legal treaties of 1713 you are, respectfully, somewhat naive on the ways of international relations and political sentiment
When it comes to the sovereignty of Gib the Spanish should be always ignored. Talking to them encourages them. BY talking to them we legitimise their claim.
That have a claim, whatever you think of it
The legal treaty of 1713 is still binding, and backed up by over 300 years of being a part of Britain, which gives even greater weight. The EU should never have allowed any member to lay claim over another’s territory. Ireland claimed Northern Ireland, although they do not now, and if the EU forbid such claims they would have dropped it making matters far easier over there. You cannot have a coherent and peaceful union when members claim territory from each other. The Spanish need to grow up. BTW, at uni I did a project on Gib. Not knowing anything about the place I did lots of reading and did eventually go there. I concluded the Spanish claim these days was rather childish. It is also being used by the Spanish as a diversion from touchy local issues.
This is ridiculous
Your assumption is that boundaries are now immutable
That is nonsense. Czeckoslovakia split in the 90s. States come and go. And claims are disputed: Scotland has a value claim to independence. Only a century ago the aural fought to suppress Ireland.
Your argument is absurd.
Richard, boundaries are immutable, but only by consent, otherwise Hitler’s march into territories are legitimate. Some territory have been forcibly seized and treaties imposed on the defeated, as Hitler did and the Soviets did on Finland, etc. However, time then comes into it. If communities are established over long periods matters change considerably. In the case of Hitler, apart from say Austria, all the occupied territories were physically opposed continually. Gib and Spain for most of the last 300 years have resided peacefully together with open borders and ongoing trade.
Scotland does not claim any territory off anyone else and no one claims any from Scotland. A rather different situation. The creation of the Czech Republic and Slovakia was the breaking of a union not a territorial claim.
Your image of the historical foundation of Gibraltar and its relationship with Spain are sufficiently fanciful to qualify for entry in the Booker Prize
Richard, Gib has been under British control for 303 years by treaty. If the Spanish really thought so much about this territory they would have kept the border closed. In over 90% of that time the border has been open with free movement of people and trade with no antagonism. What does that tell us?
BTW, Catalonians are for keeping Gibraltar British.
What that tells me is there is some pragmatism on a deeply disputed issue
And of course the Catalonians have that view: anything that annoys Madrid suits Catalonia. If you don’t realise that you need to get into Spain more
Richard – the only basis in which Gibraltar could be forcibly returned to Spain is the Treaty of Utrecht. I note from your blog and comments here that you are a fan of the treaty. Are you sure? Because there a few very unpleasant provisions in there. Have a read and let us know.
I am not saying it can be forcibly returned to anyone
I am saying the UK can make it independent
And I was saying that that Gibraltar is far from a UK priority right now for the reasons I noted, and Hague got it wrong
All the rest is other people’s projection
Jon, the treaty of Utrecht has nothing unpleasant in it at all. The Spanish requested that Jews and Moors do not reside in Gibraltar, which the British went with. You could argue that the British broke the treaty by allowing Jews and Moroccans to live there. The treaty is short. The Spanish claim the words “entire propriety” and “without any territorial jurisdiction” do not give sovereignty of the Rock to Britain. This was all in language of the time. Similar terms were used when Britain ceded Florida to Spain.
You have a despicable view of unpleasantness
What is this guy smoking?!
Reality
IMO the GoG should take issue with some of the offensive, defamatory and libellous comments this supposedly best selling author on tax haven has made. He thinks he talks with authority but the reality is he knows nothing about the subject matter. His research methods are dubious at best and non existent at worst. I sincerely hope this matter is addressed appropriately.
There is no action to take
I would win
The virulence of the reaction would seem to support the veracity of your views Richard.
It is well known that the vehemence of denial of being a tax heaven is strongly linked to being one
You should come over to put across your point of view.
I am sure you be treated with the utmost respect no better than Mr Straw.
You wouldn’t win if you had the winning national lottery ticket in your hand !
You seem very confident with very extreme views – why don’t you visit Gibraltar and express
your views locally.
We are very hospitable people and we will welcome you with open arms as we did Jack Straw:
Feel free to unite me
You pay all my expenses
If Gibraltar retains a special status post brexit with free movement of people, goods, capital, services, which is what 95.6% of gibraltarians wanted, then it would need to become indeed a special territory within the EU. All other EU states apart from uk and nl apply all domestic tax laws and company formation, disclosure laws in their so-called overseas territories. France’s departements outre mer are not offshore financial centres, they send mps to parliament in paris, same for canary islands, and aland in finland, and faroe islands of denmark. True nl has separate tax regimes in its antilles, and portugal in madeira as problems to deal with. Brexit exposes the uk’s constitutional ambiguity with OTs and CDs, double standards, and need for a uk constitution. Then gibraltar should vote if they want to be part of a constitutional uk with equal rigjts and duties or not, if not then independence with its own duties or attachment to another larger state, pick your own choice of eu 26. Most will happily accept.
Thanks
Agreed
All very interesting.
But Gibraltars economy would be seriously affected when the UK departs the EU.
Not only that, but Spain would doubtless close access to/from Gibraltar.
And there is no strategic reason to bother about Gibraltar…even the CIA attaches no military significance to Gibraltar.
Another good reason to depart…Aaron Banks “banks” there!
Given the long-standing rancour with Spain over what is, basically, Spanish territory, when we depart the EU it would be 27 states supporting Spain?
I think so.
And the U.N!
Seriously surprised to read an article from such an eminent economist. Clearly from the other contributors Mr Murphy, Gibraltar is a British outpost and a hugely strategic one as well. The people of Gibraltar have the right of self determination, but more importantly you say Spain might hold up Brexit Negociations.mmmmmm I doubt that, unless they are so stupid. Spain derives a huge part of its “exports” from people that regularly holiday in Spain. Much of their car manufacturing is exported to the UK. There is a huge expat community in Spain that massively contributes to the Spanish economy, do you honestly think Spain would want to “spite it’s face?”. Unless of course, as I’ve mentioned on your blogs before, we are so poorly served by our politicians, at home and abroad, they’re are even more stupid than they look, even in Spain!!!
Gibraltar has almost no strategic relevance
In the meta-narrative no one in the UK cares about it
Spain would suffer almost no loss not already to be suffered because of the collapse of the pound
And yes, their politicians will fight this
How wrong can your comment be?
I’d really like to know why Gibraltarians feel so British.
Being British and living in Britain I genuinely do not get it.
From my perspective it isn’t British in the slightest. It’s 1000 miles away. Most inhabitants speak Spanish, I believe? It’s embedded in the neighbouring Spanish economy in many ways.
Genuine question. Replies that go beyond “you just don’t understand” would be valued.
If you are born British then that is what you are, that cannot change on someone else’s whim. It is most definitely not going to change because you are being bullied by another country to be otherwise or because some people, after 3 centuries of being very useful to Britain, now consider you to be an inconvenience or an embarassment because of some mis-informed idea of colonialism. Gibraltar is according to the UN a colony but only because Spain will veto any change in our status & then complain that we are a colony. Most inhabitants speak both English & a local version of Spanglish.
Respectfully, if the UK gave up Gibraltar, as it has given up many, many places, you would no longer be British
Wow Richard – you’ve really stirred up a hornet’s nest here. And I agree with everything you have said.
My view is that Gibraltar’s mythical status within the UK is a little bit silly and old fashioned. I for one am embarrassed about the way the UK tends to look back at our colonial past and even two world wars and talk as if they still exist and define us even now. And then we get upset if people tell us to put these matters behind us and move on!!
In my view the UK as a country is ill. It is a place where we obsess over our past ‘finest hours’ – even force people to re-live them on a regular basis – whilst ignoring the needs of the future which everyone else seems to be grabbing! It’s as if we like to repeat the past and not learn from it.
It’s no wonder we’ve declined. It’s no wonder that within the population there are those of us who seem anti-European and jingoistic. Even my children at school have the Blitz and WWI rammed down their throats on a regular basis. We are not allowed to forget and move on. Rather we are encourged to never forget and be cocked and ready to hate again.
I come from a working class family where one great grand father was shell shocked in WWI (and he never really recovered) and who – as people living rurally at the time – suffered from food shortages that led to hunger (rarely reported in our history we teach to our children). I also lost an uncle in the desert war in WWII (he was only 17 apparently) and another one was shell-shocked in the same war in the same theater months after.
And my family’s verdict on that sacrifice? Well, after Thatcher and her neo-liberal experiment and looking at how the City of London dominates and enables a shift of wealth from ordinary people to the rich this was not the Brtitain they were fighting for. In a word – it was not worth it. The peace we sacrifice ourselves for should benefit everyone – not just a few.
And as for remembering our glorious dead, would we not be better in remembering them by trying harder to ensure that we never have to ask anyone to lay down their lives again? I think so.
Do you have any idea what’s under the mountain?
Speak to very senior retired Armed Forces personnel. To say that it is “strategically irrelevant” is utter nonsense.
So I should believe in your fantasies?
Grow up
In the age of deep penetration nuclear ordnance whatever is there is irrelevant
The nutty professor and his merry men are deluded autocrats with no legal or moral basis for their arguments.
Thank God the vast majority of British people are more decent than this lot !!!
Today for the first time ever a new mainstream Spanish political party Podemos have stated in Spanish parliament that they would accept
the results of a new binding referendum on self determination.
Interesting developments considering the distorted views on the Gibraltar issue by an attention seeking deluded professor.
Again we cordially invite you to come to Gibraltar to express your views in public.
Is that your interpretation of cordial?
I am being polite and restraint – you don’t deserve any better.
Come to Gibraltar arrange a public demonstration and spout your views on a microphone and see what type of response you get.
I’ll buy you the ticket !!! (One way !)
If you are not interested in debate, and it’s clear you are not, I won’t embarress you
You can even spell the word embarrass correctly professor !!!
Cannot take you seriously !!!
Oh dear
In 160 plus comments I have a typo
I’ll go and quietly disembowel myself
When people start having a go about the quality of one’s spelling they are really scraping the barrel!! Sounds like desperation to me.
Sorry meant cannot
A mistake?
Surely not