This is a clip of the exchanges on Reeves ' Spring Statement between me, Mark Littlewood of the Popular Conservatives and Jeremy Vine, broadcast from about 1.35pm today:
Thanks to Thomas Murphy for making this in a hurry.
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good stuff – enjoyed the final “heckle”
its frustrating that you have to debate idiots like Mark Littlewood. Its frustrating that Jeremy Vine hasnt listened to anything you have said over the past number of years – I know he is not supposed to have an opinion but if he fails to absorb even 20% of what you and the opposite person say then how can he ask relevant questions, Zimbabwe ffs.
The average person listening to that will be completely misled by Littlewood if they are that way inclined. Which is of course what he and his ilk want.
perhaps someone can ask JV to hst a long podcast/YT debate or panel with you, gary stevenson and say Dale Vince to discuss the current state of affairs…..
Noted
Littlewood said nothing. “Tried this policy to destruction” when? “living beyond the means of taxpeyers” eh? – but happy to go after the poor/very poor/hungry kids.
We are back in 1902 – when Tressel started to write Ragged Trousered Philanthropists – the opening chapters mentioned suicide amongst the working class – many of whom found this the only way out. Richard mentioned suicide – quite.
Agreed
Second to comment but not allowed the last comment – same as your previous broadcast. I think you need to make a complaint.
Littlewood just repeats the same old private = good, public = bad mantra throughout. I don’t know how you manage to be so polite with him.
It does not pay to lose your cool on air
But my final comment said it all – wrong
Loved that final riposte – the one word heckle!
🙂
Very telling that as soon as the underlying orthodoxy of how government funds itself is broached, Vine quickly intercedes to change the subject, with his producer doubtless screaming into his ear through the headset.
I know the producer. I think that unlikely.
So Mark Littlewood formerly of IEA, economic adviser to Liz Truss, now “Popular Conservatism” (sic) regards the entire public sector as “unproductive”?
He travels to work on public highways, policed and maintained by public servants, following rules legislated by public servants, if he is hit by a bad driver, a public servant will take him to hospital so he can get back to work quickly. His driving case will be heard by a public sector justice system. He will eat safe food because public sector legislaors and public sector enforcement keep his food safe. If he has a civil grievance or is a crime victim, public sector justice will handle his case. Hiis bins will be emptied safely by public sector refise collectors who will process it safely to prevent disease outbreaks and pollution. Should his private sector washing machine or tumbler dryer set his house on fire , public sector employees will ppsave his home and his life.
When he flies for business or leisure, public sector workers will keep him safe in the sky, (unless the private sector Boeing plane is defective). A public sector military will keep him safe from overseas aggressors.
Because of people like him every single one of these “unproductive” services is starved of cash and the cracks are showing. And it hits national productivity hard.
Some formerly “unproductive” public services have been handed to the private sector, to improve productivity – the success stories of water, sewage, energy generation and distribution, & public transport, where private companies bleed us dry for subsidy snd STILL fail to deliver “productivity”.
Mark Littlewood’s incoherent ideas have done more to wreck this country’s productivity than any public sector worker.
We can’t afford him or those who think like him. Sadly parliament is full of them, in all the main parties.
He is uttely incoherent
But is he stupid? I guess not. & if he is not stupid &, maybe he can in privaet moments recognise that what he says is daft, what does that make him? part of the world’s oldest profession?
My main interest is in how & why people think they way they do – & how they internally justify what they say or believe to themselves.
I have known Mark for 15 years
I think he believes this stuff
Whether he really believes this stuff or not is irrelevant. Poking holes in the neoliberal facade doesn’t pay as well as pushing the nonsense which the likes of the IEA, TPA, ASI, etc etc are paid to produce by an unspecified *somebody*. I’m sure that Richard can attest to this!
If Littlewood has left the IEA, I wonder which particular *somebody* is funding him now? Not that it really matters because we know the agenda they are all pushing is always the same: Public sector bad, private sector good.
I have no idea who funds him to run what is, in effect, Robert Jenrick campaign.
Forgive me for posting again on this subject:
Enlightenment is a destructive process. It has nothing to do with becoming better or happier. Enlightenment is the crumbling away of untruth. It is seeing through the facade of pretence. It is the complete eradication of everything we imagined to be true. ….Adyashanti
One can interprt this in a few ways (religious, societal (religious?) etc). Its point is to see things as they are rather than through doctrine or ideology. My guess is that Mr Littlewood prefers the comforts of doctrine/ideology i.e not having to feel “uncomfortable” or uncertain. Of course this is his choice. I pity him. He is an empty man (& for the avoidance of doubt – I do not regard myself as in any way superior – apart from this: I remain on a journey, whilst Mr Littlewood seems to have arrived at his “destination”.
There is no doubt he is happy with his dogma
Littlewood wants rid of the public sector. Shut down social security, do away with benefits, stop providing a state pension (such as it is – the worst in the western world) privatise health and education.
The rich inherit everything and the poor can go hang. All very Trumpian – everything transactional.
A vision of hell.
1. If the welfare system isn’t working, by all means fix it. But the people who have applied via that system (the only system) in good faith are not at fault if the system isn’t working. Yet they are being punished
2. The reason the numbers on health related benefits have risen so sharply is because £billions were stripped from the NHS over 10 years of austerity. People have not been able to get minor illnesses fixed, and those minor illnesses have become major
3. The evidence for (2) has not been taken into account by Kendall or Reeves. The primary evidence they are using comes from the Lords Finance Committee, which stated (falsely) that health related benefits had risen faster than the rates of disability.
4. The DWP has deliberately delayed the release of a report called “Triggers for claiming PIP” produced under Therese Coffey. It makes it clear that health issues are the primary causes for claims – NOT the “incentive of more money”, for which there is no evidence.
5. The Impact Assessment should have been released prior to Kendall’s statement to the House. It was released today. It states that a further 250,000 people, including 50,000 children, will be pushed into relative poverty by the cuts.
I do not know how Labour MPs are living with themselves right now
This assessment is dire – and every case is a tragedy
Rachel Reeves may avoid the word ‘austerity’, but if spending remains constrained and services starved, it’s austerity in practice, whatever the label. Robust UK evidence links austerity to rising suicide rates, especially after 2010. Key drivers include welfare cuts, disability benefit reassessments, and local service reductions. Particularly affected groups include working-age men, disabled individuals, and those in deprived areas. Areas with deeper cuts experienced greater increases, highlighting clear socio-economic vulnerability patterns. The Chancellor isn’t managing the economy, she’s managing the narrative, preserving a system that prioritises inequality over investment, and scarcity over shared prosperity. She preaches discipline and belt-tightening when it comes to welfare, housing, education, and healthcare, but billions are quietly available for corporate subsidies, defence expansion, and tax perks for the wealthiest. This is not coherent economic policy, it’s selective austerity, weaponised to punish the vulnerable and reward entrenched power. That’s not just poor leadership; it’s moral failure masquerading as fiscal sense.
Thanks
Well said, RobertJ!
Now there’s a “policy” that HAS been “Tried to destruction”; privatisation!
If only the like of Mr Littlewood (stop sniggering at the back!), would take his own advice on doing the same, expecting different results and how the private sector has beaten-up EVERY “public service” it has taken-over, the UK state might not be in the position it currently is?
These “Tory-lites” really do need to take a look at themselves, instead of attempting to throw mud. If they did, they might just find that people like us might not throw it straight back!
They really do like to pee on our heads, while confidently stating that it is raining!
The Conservative and conservative commentators always mention the taxes but not the extra interest payments they have to make. Obviously this varies but that and rents must, in many cases, be a lot more.
Do they think the profits made by banks is good for the economy?
Out of all the nonsense, misunderstandings and downright untruths Littlewood came out with was when he said something along the lines of that we have been pursuing this policy [of the government spending into the economy] for years and it doesn’t work
Wait! What? Every government from Thatcher to the present day has been trying to do the exact opposite. They’ve been relentlessly trying to cut the public sector and look how well that’s turned out. Time for a different approach is well overdue.
Littlewood is a poisonous piece of work isn’t he, a real worm-tongue.