I loved this:
Good advice.
And just for the record, Dr Barnard Castle, a consultant eye doctor, as well as Dr Harold Shipman, have also signed.
I think the numbers who have really signed are very much smaller than claimed.
But the 'fake news' (justifiably named in this case) will go on, no doubt.
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Those who signed the Great Barrington Declaration should listen to this video by an American Covid front-line nurse and be ashamed, very ashamed!
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/08/us/nurse-reacts-to-trump-downplaying-covid-trnd/index.html
Agreed
But who is Cristina Hops? Why should we believe her and diss others who have signed the GBD in good faith?
Isn’t that the same as any on line petition of any kind? Or are the ones you sign devoid of any manipulation?
Why focus on this and not the long list of scientists and medics who have put their name to it from Harvard, Oxford etc etc. There is an impressive list of names even from my untrained eye
How do you know they really signed?
“How do you know they really signed?”
Well they are so high profile and there names are now attached to this and so is their professional reputation.. if their signatures were false they would have surely said so!
Do you think they have all checked?
This is taken from the Guardian so they believe the high level signatories to be legit..“Individual academics from the universities of Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, Stanford, Nottingham, Edinburgh, Exeter, Sussex and York were among experts from around the world who signed the declaration. However, the declaration’s website allows anyone to add their name to the list if they provide an email address, home city, postcode and name.“
I am sure some gave
Now see this
https://acmedsci.ac.uk/more/news/navigating-covid-19-through-the-volume-of-competing-voices
Your blanket response response to the medical opinion expressed in the Barrington report has been to forward the letter by Robert Lechler.. in which he says… “ We cannot lock entire sectors of society away because others want to live their lives ‘as normal’. Neither should we expect younger or healthier people in the population to take a hit for herd immunity, especially when there is so much we are still to discover about the long term effects of COVID-19.”
What exactly is he suggesting? Sounds like he is just sitting on the fence. Either we move towards lock down for the most vulnerable or lock down for everyone. He has suggested neither. And I am unsure what you are suggesting either?
Why ask me?
My name is not Robert Lechler
Hmm – lets hope we don’t die from laughing – it’s very funny!!! Thanks for sharing.
Harold Shipman was my aunt and uncle’s Doctor. So there is life after death after all.
Has Professor Theo C Cuppier signed yet?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid
It gets worse…………………
Johnny Bananas trended on Twitter….
It doesn’t matter who signs a petition or how many, it is the substance of the petition and the truth of it that speaks, more people or people of note dont make it more true, it is just true. This is about politics and control, its about narsacisim and psychopathy, its about money and power. They tested our belief in science with gender and bullied people into accepting science as being what politics wanted it to be. “If they can get peole to believe absurdities they can get them to commit atrocities”
So Dr Nafeez Ahmed doesn’t agree with the declaration and signs with a fake ID, which he imagines somehow discredits all other signatories – I checked at random the three medics who happened to be displayed on the first page just now and they are all genuine. The fact that some idiots (including Nafez Ahmed) have used fake names, doesn’t mean that the vast majority of signatories are fake names.
As for the objection that the vast majority of signatories are members of the general public, surely the general public are entitled to an opinion, when it is their lives, futures and livelihoods at stake – it’s a concept known as democracy.
People like Dr Nameez Ahmed, who think it is legitimate to attempt to discredit any medically qualified person who disagrees with him or and that the general public are not entitled to an opinion are extremely dangerous.
No he’s not dangerous
The declaration is
And it’s reallly quitecsafe for me to say so: my judgement is right and yours wrong here
https://acmedsci.ac.uk/more/news/navigating-covid-19-through-the-volume-of-competing-voices
All petitions will have some fakes. The notable thing here is how scared the media and establishment are of an alternative narrative. I’ve checked lots of the scientists names on google and they are valid. The original parties are also world renowned experts, at least as qualified as Ferguson, Whitty and Vallance. Moreover in a few days 160,000 plus members of the public have signed. These aren’t Covid deniers, they are people wanting a proportionate response to a relatively mild virus.
This is the proportionate response
https://acmedsci.ac.uk/more/news/navigating-covid-19-through-the-volume-of-competing-voices
It is all very well for the professor to diss the GBD and the info therein Richard, but where is his detailed advice on how we must deal with the virus?
The decision on that is political
But if science is to inform the matter he makes clear there is no science in the GBD
That the declaration came from the American Institute for Economic Research, a Koch brothers funded right wing think tank, tells you all you need to know. A track record in climate change denial and defending tobacco, both areas where some scientists lent their names (and sold their souls) amplified by wealthy interests.
As wiser heads than mine explain, it’s our utterly failing test and trace system that is the problem. If that was working, we would be able to drive down the numbers and progressively relax and be more selective about lock down.
‘As wiser heads than mine explain, it’s our utterly failing test and trace system that is the problem. If that was working, we would be able to drive down the numbers and progressively relax and be more selective about lock down.’
I just don’t understand why ‘test, track and trace’ was not adopted aggressively from the outset, instead of it being abandoned altogether and then subsequently ‘rediscovered’ when the virus had gone beyond any means of local controls. It is the most fundamental tool in the public health toolbox.
It is a scandal that it was outsourced to the private sector when localities had a particular expertise and infrastructure in place to deliver (though diminished over the last 10 years sadly) effective contact tracing. It’s almost as if some in Government wanted to let the virus run rampant – I’ve always thought that was the case and still do, given the absolute horlicks the ‘TTT’ system still is.
For me its a double dose of ideology. Firstly not putting in place track and trace because it would have cost money – and maybe the libertarians saw it as an infringement on ‘freedoms’.
Secondly, when they did do it, outsourcing it to companies with no experience of public health rather than building up existing local public health and NHS resources who know what they are doing
Interesting article here concerning the GBD and its financial backers. Are the Koch brothers not also great backers of neoliberalism going back decades?
https://bylinetimes.com/2020/10/09/climate-science-denial-network-behind-great-barrington-declaration/
Indeed
Has no one learned from the previous lockdown? Hiding away from the virus does not make it go away. Yes, incidences go down as hosts go into hiding, but be the virus stays the same. It’s is not affected by hiding, it is opportunistic, it is waiting for a likely host to emerge, that’s its only reason for being.
Trust people to keep distances, wear a mask, and observe hand hygiene, be honest with the public about messaging. The billions given to private companies who have no idea about handling epidemics has added to the mess. Local Public Health who know how track and trace in an epidemic surely would have worked.
Lockdowns do not work, it just hides us away, we need to learn to live with the virus if we are to continue on with any kind of life, making judgements for our own wellbeing, while following the simple rules to protect ourselves and others. Those of us at greater risk can make informed decisions, as well as the rest of us. It’s what we have always done. Risk is part of life it’s always been with us. It’s being fully informed that will get us through this, not keeping us in the dark with no explanations, shady data and shady science.
But you do not address the critical issue, which is track, trace and so selective isolation
That is all we know that does work
And that’s really not hard to work out
Great Barrington Declaration is part-funded by right-wing American billionaire Charles Koch:-
https://bylinetimes.com/2020/10/09/climate-science-denial-network-behind-great-barrington-declaration/
Look for Dr Yoda Skywalker in the list of signatories.
That’s my alter ego.
WHO now saying covid19 more deadly than the flu and also that lockdowns don’t work is that fake news?
[…] Stanford doctors among leaders of global anti-lockdown movement Mercury News and The Great Barrington Declaration isn’t too worried about who makes the declaration Tax Research UK. “I used the name ‘Mad […]