This comment was in the letter from Boris Johnson to Donald Tusk relating to the Northern Ireland backstop, to which I have already referred:
The backstop locks the UK, potentially indefinitely, into an international treaty which will bind us into a customs union and which applies large areas of single market legislation in Northern Ireland. It places a substantial regulatory border, rooted in that treaty, between Northern Ireland and Great Britain. The treaty provides no sovereign means of exiting unilaterally and affords the people of Northern Ireland no influence over the legislation which applies to them. That is why the backstop is anti-democratic.
Let me rewrite that, slightly:
Leaving the EU locks Scotland, potentially indefinitely, into an international arrangement which will exclude it from a customs union and which will exclude it from large areas of single market legislation. It is as a result likely to create a substantial regulatory border, rooted in that arrangement, between Scotland and the European Union. That arrangement provides no sovereign means of Scotland exiting unilaterally and affords the people of Scotland no influence over the legislation which applies to them. That is why leaving the EU without the agreement of the people of Scotland is anti-democratic.
Rathe hard to argue with, I'd say Mr Johnson.
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Fascinating and troubling.
Johnson and Co are just making it up as they go long. That is the impression I get. They are playing to different audiences as they go along. No wonder we are so disunited.
Actually – being so very self-centred I’m not sure that Boris has any idea what you are getting at Richard.
He is an ignorant self centred pig of a man.
The only time he feels uncomfortable is when he is not getting hat he wants for himself.
Nice try, but Scotland is not “sovereign”. It is part of the UK.
The difference being of course, that with the backstop NI (part of the UK) would be subject to EU rules which the UK would have no say in, whereas Scotland is part of the UK and has sitting MPs in parliament.
A straw man argument if ever I saw.
Scotland is a separate jurisdiction
Piffle. NI is a *contingent* part of the UK. And so, in a different manner, is Scotland. This idea of everyone having to leave because the English decide is authoritarian bullying and solicits the break-up of the UK. Full steam ahead for “Titanic success”.
Scotland is a region of the UK, with a devolved government which has certain powers.
In that respect it is no different to Northern Ireland, or indeed any city with a Mayor which has jurisdictional legal powers.
It is not a stand alone entity which is what you are claiming it is for the purpose of your argument.
With respect James, that is not true, as is an internationally recognised fact
I think your time wasting here is coming to an end very rapidly
James says:
“Scotland is a region of the UK, ….” etc….
And it’s exactly that sort of ignorant and arrogant attitude towards the Issues of Scotland and N. Ireland (and maybe Wales too) that will see England as an independent nation and for many it can’t happen too soon.
Agreed
Placing Titanic and Success together in the same sentence is a little amusing but then Brexiteers do tend to have a distorted view of history.
Bill Lawrence says:
“…… Brexiteers do tend to have a distorted view of history.”
….which in turn lead to very strange expectations of future outcomes.
The people of Scotland are very definitely sovereign as was indeed confirmed by the Westminster Parliament in a vote in July 2018. At present Scotland is, by virtue of a Treaty between two countries in 1707, in a Union with England. The people of Scotland can choose to end that Union if they so choose.
Precisely
Tim makes a point that is frequently overlooked in discussions. In Scotland, the people are sovereign by long-standing tradition going back to the Middle Ages, when Monarchy was the only common form of governance. It meant, in theory at least, that the Scottish people could always dethrone a monarch who failed to govern well/equitably. Of course it wasn’t quite as simple as that since the Aristocracy had huge influence and generally sided with the monarch except when they were trying to dethrone him/her. The Scottish People’s sovereignty was confirmed via the Scottish Constitutional Convention of the 1990s, then by the Scottish Parliament following its reconvening in 1999 and, as Tim points out, by the Westminster Parliament in 2018, so it is by now well-established and widely understood, at least in Scotland.
However, we hear endlessly that Westminster/Parliament (UK Parliament) is sovereign and therein lies the nub of a huge constitutional conundrum that has so far never been resolved. The notion of one-size-fits-all sovereignty of Westminster results in UK Governments (and politicians and the media) thinking they have the right to deny Scotland’s will in matters like devolution of powers, referenda on independence etc. Sooner or later there is bound to be a stand-off and, the more Westminster dictates to Scotland, the greater will be the drift towards Scottish Independence. The direction of travel is by now clear and recent polls indicate an acceleration of that drift.
The last chance of saving the Union lies in the main Westminster parties realising that they are in a Political Union and that requires co-operation among the parties to it. I can’t see the Tories in particular have the humility to understand this, so the Union’s days are numbered. As long as they hold to the mindset of a colonial master, the Union is doomed.
For those who doubt your claim read this
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2018-07-04a.406.0
The endorsed resolution was
That this House endorses the principles of the Claim of Right for Scotland, agreed by the Scottish Constitutional Convention in 1989 and by the Scottish Parliament in 2012, and therefore acknowledges the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of government best suited to their needs.
Oh James, you probably haven’t got over India yet. Just substitute “home counties” for “home country” and you will be fine. We are leaving. Like all the others.
Oh, Richard – spot on.
I would say impossible to disagree with.
Any chance you would join the SNP and become their financial spokesman?
Not my style of working
Scotland has its own legal system, education system, health service, none of which are dependant on being part of the UK. To suggest it is a “region” is not only insulting but displays the fairly typical ignorance
of many English people
Johnson says “…..by removing control of such large areas of the commercial and economic life of Northern Ireland to an external body over which the people of Northern Ireland have no democratic control…..”. In a Belfast Telegraph poll earlier this week, 58.4% of voters in Northern Ireland would vote in favour of the six counties remaining more closely aligned with the EU than with the rest of the UK. This of course would include substantial numbers of Unionist voters. 98.75 of Sinn Fein and SDLP voters would support the backstop. Clearly, therefore, the “external body” to which Johnson refers is not the EU, in the eyes of the majority of voters, but rather the Westminster government of the UK. It s nonsense, therefore, to talk of the “undemocratic” backstop, as Johnson does. The “will of the people” in NI is clear. And likewise, in Scotland, whee in the referendum, the voters divided into 62% to remain and 38% leave; the democratic control the people of Scotland would wish for over an external body refers to Westminster, not Brussels.
Thank you
I think James’ s reaction is a perfect example of what Scots are up against.
Johnson would be proud of James.
Is he related to Alun Cairns by any chance?