Joseph Stiglitz, Paul Mason and Aditya Chakrabortty all make clear what the issue is in Greece. All imply where there hearts lie. They would vote No in the Greek referendum. So would I.
I won't repeat their words. Please read each of them: they all have a distinct message. It is that Greece now has to decide. It has to decide its own fate. It can choose between democracy and the right to pursue its own path. Or it can choose to bow to the demands of a form of capitalism that says it is about choice but is not: which instead of being about democracy is about doing what is required to keep the bankers and a tiny elite in power.
We should, I suppose, be grateful that the elite do not deny this fact. Many papers report the same thing, which is that whatever it says on the ballot paper in Greece the real choice, according to Europe's elite, is different. They are saying to the people of Greece that the referendum is about staying in the euro, or not. And there is little, if anything, that is subtle about their approach. It is a 'shut up, do as you're told, take the medicine and live under our protection' argument that many a feudalist would have been entirely familiar with.
And what they are also delivering is a 'get rid of Syriza and Tsipras' message. As the Guardian has noted, the unspoken message from Germany is that Tsipras is a dangerous man on a mission who has to be stopped because he is a threat to the European order.
I agree: he is. But that threat is needed. What has been proven over the past few days is that there is no democratic control within the Eurozone. And we already know that the European Central Bank is wholly unaccountable and the European Commission is little different. That combined expression of power for a few is without doubt threatened by democratically elected Syriza. The EU elite want to crush it as a result, and are simply astonished that it has not given in. It is beyond that elite's imagination that elected politicians will not do what they demand: all politicians have to date. That is one reason for admiring Syriza. They are genuinely courageous politicians.
And that is why what is happening in Greece is so much more important than being a simple referendum on the euro. As people across Europe demand autonomy and local power this struggle is as much about whether the people of Scotland and Wales and Northern Ireland, and even England come to that, can have power as to whether Greece can.
And this power struggle is about whether democracy matters or not.
And it is a fight to determine in whose interests economies are run.
Of course the people of Greece may vote Yes and stay in the euro on Juncker's terms. Democracy permits that possibility. But it is a possibility that democracy in Greece would have difficulty in embracing because Syriza would fall and there is no effective opposition: the main opposition political parties are not even campaigning in the referendum for fear that they will prejudice the Yes vote, so badly are they disliked and mistrusted. So a Yes vote might also be a vote to suspend democracy itself: assume a government of the bankers will be put in place.
Such a situation would not, however, be the end of the matter. Just as the Scottish referendum was not the end of debate on Scotland's right to choose a narrow Yes vote in Greece may be the last thing that Juncker et al really want. Their nightmares might only then begin.
And what happens if there is a no vote? Actually, no one does know. No one does know if the bullies of Europe will have the conviction to carry through on their promise to expel Greece, for which there is no mechanism in place. Will they really do what they have no power to deliver? That too could spell disaster for the EU elite because it would make clear that this is about their power, not about good governance or anything approaching it. None of them will want that to be made clear. No wonder they're frightened - and I am sure that they are.
In the face of all that I would have to vote No if I was Greek.
I would vote No to say yes to Greece, choice, the end of control, to break the power of the EU elite, to reject banker fuelled capitalism, and to reject the path to feudalism. But most I would vote No because there simply is no argument barring fear to vote Yes and imposed fear has never been a reason to do anything wise.
But I'd also vote No knowing that whatever Europe says now a No vote in this referendum does not close the debate: that will go on come what may in Greece, and it will grow for a simple reason, which is that the EU must now be petrified of a UK EU referendum. The chance that the debate in Greece rolls over into that campaign is very high indeed. And the chance that the EU bankers might begin to lose their power is looking ever more likely.
We are going to live in very uncertain times.
But the protection of Jean Claude Juncker is no alternative to that.
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What makes this situation more profound is that it fuels support for anti-EU sentiment in the UK also. It will be fresh in the minds of voters when we come round to our in/out referendum.
I’m pro-EU, in that I support the ideals the EU was originally formed for, but the current monster bears almost no relationship to that ideal. If the UK referendum was also on Sunday, though, I’d have to vote no also, as I fully reject the idea that a people should be impoverished to repay for the mistakes of a banking elite.
What bewilders me the most though, is that the IMF have admitted that Austerity and QE (in it’s existing form) does not help the poorest and most vulnerable in society, yet continue to argue that this is the only approach possible to recover after the GFC. The medicine kills, but must be taken for ideological reasons.
The IMF is clearly a riven organisation with the top dedicated to policies that its own researchers show make no sense
People aren’t being impoverished to pay for the mistakes of a banking elite. They’re being crushed because the project is to remove the social safety net, everywhere and come what may.
I think you’re only bewildered because you may consider, at some residual level, that the IMF has some sort of “improvement” mission, in a social-democratic sense; whereas their mission is actually more in line with the agricultural “improvers” of the 18th century – clear the land and introduce more economically efficient processes – oh, and you poor tenants, bugger off somewhere else. Go to the cities and starve. Or work, if you can find any. We don’t care. Don’t look.
The medicine kills and (not “but”, “because”) it must be taken for ideological reasons, reasons that reflect the long-time demands of the centralisation of capitalist power and rampant financial parasitism.
Why take responsibility for the poor and disadvantaged when they can get away with not so doing?
The Greeks, though, cannot solve their problems alone, which are endemic in the system they inhabit and which surrounds them. I’m sure that Syriza are simply not radical or revolutionary enough to deal with these issues, being a party of EU retention.
“Will they really do what they have no power to deliver?”
They have the power. They simply suspend the ECB account of the Bank of Greece completely and impose economic blockades of Greece – attempting to cripple the economy there.
They are the ones in charge of the bureaucrats. They are the ones pulling the strings. They are the ones who ensure the judges get a nice retirement.
But importantly they are the ones with the hands on the military power necessary to enforce things in extremis.
There is no law without enforcement. And nothing is going to get the Bundesbank to change its mind short of a military invasion and forceable destruction of the institution.
Now we have seen that before. Let’s hope for pity’s sake we don’t have to see it again.
101 years after the last European disaster over nothing and we’re at it again. Which is why the concept of an EU is a busted idea. The peoples of Europe are their own tribes. They need to live independently next to each other – and the peace has to be made with that in mind. ‘Ever greater union’ is clearly not on their agenda.
So is the European Union a failed experiment. Have we seen through the ruse of an enormous ruling elite that has herded us into this position. Where is the the egalitarian harmonisation. That we our own tribes is indeed so. How do we get back to the drawing board.
Excellent questions
I am not as yet the architect of the solution
Tribal currencies, tribal banks. No more (almost) global central bank network run from Basel, running us in turn. That nonsense ends.
It’s odd. Five years ago I was very pro EU (as I was 6 months ago, in fact) and also pro-UK and against Scottish independence. It was largely the UK and NO campaign that pushed me to support independence, and is still managing to harden that support with every week that passes in the House of Commons and UK media. The UK elites treated Scotland and voters with utter contempt and continue to do so. It was, and remains, very clear that the UK is terrified of losing Scotland, or allowing us any more control over our own affairs, but yet they persist in telling us we’re too poor and would be a basket case – despite being the biggest oil producer in Europe.
Similarly, with Greece, the EU has managed to turn me off them. I was pro-EU because I believed in its social aims, in free movement of people and ending borders. There was always a niggling doubt that perhaps that was secondary to a far more neoliberal agenda, but it felt worth accepting that. But that now seems like a facade, with the true face being revealed now as something hideous.
My difficulty with the UKs EU referendum now is that I’m not keen to vote for the banker’s EU that’s currently punishing Greece, and even less keen to vote for the Tories “reformed” version which will be even more right wing and wants to get rid of those few decent things – social and free movement. But on the other hand, the thought of being in the UK, run by the Westminster right wing consensus, without even the few social benefits the EU did bring, is unthinkable. I honestly don’t know how I’ll vote in the referendum now, but I suspect whatever way it is, it’ll be against the worst campaign rather than for anything positive. I find that very sad.
Very well put Cath.
I think many Scots will be feeling the same way as you today. The EU is using the threat of € withdrawal to tyrannise Greece, in the same way as the UK used the £ to coerce Scotland.
Exactly
This is why we have currency as we do, it makes it possible for the creation and maintenance of an artificial elite. Here we see them flexing their muscles, not even pretending their actions are good for anyone’s economy any longer, just as Cameron/Osborne/Duncan-Smith will be forced to admit when they shortly cut working tax credits and any pretence they’re trying to ‘make work pay’ has to be abandoned. This is all about the power, and that’s why the Worgl experiment http://www.lietaer.com/2010/03/the-worgl-experiment/ got stomped on by a banking-pushed government, and it’s why more recently this unfortunate fellow http://qz.com/429536/the-absurd-trial-of-a-russian-farmer-who-invented-his-own-inflation-proof-currency/ is in trouble. They presented ways of doing things that were clearly far better than what we have now which is in reality wildly anti-social. The powers that be, the real ones, not government, hold their authority due to the method of finance we’ve had imposed upon us and this is why when credible alternatives appear like the two above they are ruthlessly stamped out.
If I were Greek, I too would vote NO, for the simple reason that if the Greek government bow to Juncker, Lagarde & co, Greece will always be their puppet on a string. Millions of people all over the world are watching the Greek crisis in awe of their tenacity & bravery and if the people of Greece can hold onto their nerve and vote NO, I don’t believe the EU will carry out their threat.
Juncker & co know the level of support there is for the people of Greece in UK and that it would be a very foolish move to expel Greece, with a UK referendum on membership of the EU just around the corner. With a different PM negotiating a “better deal for Britain” I might have been tempted to stay, but with David Cameron representing us at the negotiating table, I’ll be voting for us to leave the EU in the referendum.
It’s interesting watching Paul Mason in his Channel 4 role, trying to remain “impartial” and then reading the material he has published in The Guardian, Richard. Not that anyone can ever doubt where Paul’s sympathies and politics lie.
That aside, I entirely agree and hope with all my heart that the Greeks deliver a solid “No” vote on Sunday, though it does appear to be the case that large numbers of Greek citizens think remaining in the Euro is worth endless austerity (or perhaps its simply better the devil you know than one you don’t).
But whatever way the vote goes one thing’s for sure, we now know EXACTLY what the EU project is all about, and it isn’t anything to do with democracy. Of course, in the case of the US its been apparent for decades that “democracy” simply consists of making a choice between slightly different variants of predatory capitalism. But in Europe – and particularly mainland Europe – we’ve been conned, lulled or self-deceived (or a bit of all three) into believing that we still enjoy a more effective, “truer” form of democracy. The veil has now been lifted, however, and what we see is that the choice we have is no different from that enjoyed by the citizens of the US – we can have any government we want as long as its some variant of neoliberal.
So, whatever happens in Greece on Sunday, Syriza and its supporters can be proud that they were courageous enough to stand up and expose the corrupted heart at the centre of the EU project.
Agreed
I note Tsipras intimated he and Syriza will resign should the vote be Yes as they will not pursue a policy they do not believe is right. Assuming those circumstances come to pass and they follow through on that pledge that to me is political courage of the highest order.
How many other machine politicians would be willing to walk the talk in that way ? You only have to read Chuka’s drivel part 2 in the Guardian yesterday to see how our miserable lot operate.
I hope the Greeks vote no, although i fear even that will not bring the Troika to their senses. They are going to cut off their nose, ears and any appendage they can hack away to ensure the neoliberal consensus in maintained.
Should the Greeks take a brave step and be ultimately forced to leave, i think its important like minded people, Trade Unions etc show their solidarity in the coming months and years.
As we descend into chaos, as we no doubt shall for a time, we should welcome it as an opportunity as a chance to fashion a new order, one favourable to the broad majority, not the artificial elites created by the form of money and banking we’ve had imposed on us for centuries. We have the chance to put public-owned banking and thus money creation at the heart of this new order, where it always should have been. So it’s all good 🙂
Aren’t we lucky? *chokes*
Yes agree. I see some of this period as the monetary version of the interregnum [the time in the UK after Charles I and before Charles II], lots of mad ideas the possibility of [monetary] freedom. Money isn’t working for the 99% and it’s time for something [or a few things] different. Incidentally, I’m not a huge bitcoin fan either, that’s a tech-libertarian version of ‘the same’.
I agree with every word you’ve written, Richard, and I too would vote NO.
My first reaction to the Greek referendum was that it was a brave and principled call that took the power elite totally by surprise. That the troika then chose to protect banks from the consequences of their own decisions and inflict those consequences on the substantially innocent Greek population confirmed my position.
Democracy must be prized more than the brute force of a bankrupt ideology and people must be seen to be more important than bankers. I agree with the sentiment of Bill’s comment as it seems that only chaos will be powerful enough to break the current system and rebuild something very much better.
Tsipras, and Varoufakis, need to be commended for both their demonstrable commitment to “a better way” and bravery in the face of overwhelming financial firepower.
For an alternative view – which specifically takes a pop at Paul Mason – and by definition you, me and anyone else whose posted “No” here, it’s worth reading this:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/30/syriza-greece-referendum-voters-failure-austerity
An article tainted by desperation, I felt
And just read some of the comments on this “desperate” piece – replete with anyi-Greek bile. Not pleasant.
Racism is rampant on this issue
The issue here is Greece’s credit rating. As other’s have explained, if a country has a rating between, I think, AAA and AA-, then banks can create money to buy bonds without having to hold any capital at all.
In short, money can be created out of thin air. Were Greece part of, say, the UK, then sufficient funds to pay off the troika could be produced by simply typing in some numbers. As this would be money produced from thin air, it would not need to be paid back.
Revolutionary perhaps, but temporarily absorbing Greece within the United Kingdom seems entirely viable. This needn’t be a long-term arrangement, so there would be no long-term threat to Greek Independence.
Am I missing anything?
The EU accepting its responsibility to Greece would have the same effect
Again, Mr. M., doubt you’ll publish….
ED comment:
I don’t even read your comments
Please stop wasting your time