So Greece has had its debt downgraded.
What an opportunity for profit for the financial markets.
What a disaster for the people of Greece.
And what a triumph for Standards and Poors.
Because let’s be clear — Greece will carry on. Its people will survive. With support from Europe democracy will prevail in a country that has seen dictatorship far too recently.
And this then is a crisis created, in the main, by bankers — who put in place too many of the strictures inherent in the Euro; by libertarians who promote the hatred of the states and the poor regard for regulation that has denied the Greek government so much of the tax revenue it is owned and by financial institutions who (as Goldman Sachs seem to demonstrate, time and again) just love just situations to make short term profit at cost to ordinary people.
It was ever thus.
And that’s why governments have a duty to support Greece and stop contagion — which is wholly unnecessary.
Sure Greece is a mess.
But to blame it all on the Greeks is absurd.
That would be like blaming the Serbians for the First World War. Sure they played a part in the crisis that engulfed them and many others — but the epicentre and the main players were a long, long way away, denying the truth for all it was worth. As do Goldman Sachs, and other bankers, pepetually.
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So nothing to do with the huge amounts of tax evasion the Greeks undertake then? Have you seen the figures? I guess it’s just easier for you to blame the banks.
The sooner Greece defaults, the better.
@Greg
Of course it’s a problem
People like you fuel it
Deliberately
That’s the pernicious trade you’re in
Help me make sense of this:
A couple of days ago you rant that Goldman Sachs committed a legal fraud (that is a brilliant invention, btw) by arranging a derivative structure between highly sophisticated buyers and sellers of credit risk. I did not bother that (i) since this is a derivative trade it is a zero-sum game, (ii) Goldman never benefited from it, but actually lost money on the deal, (iii) Goldman did nothing criminally wrong and odds are well less than even that it will also successfully defend the civil suit.
Now Greece…. Let’s look at what Greece did, shall we:
It misrepresented its budget position to join the Euro in 2001
it concealed off-balance sheet financing transactions
It misled investors during 2009 about the extent of its budget shortfall
It still refuses today to make a full disclose of some key areas of public expenditures, especially defense
But that is really nothing according to you, it is all forgiven. The ones to blame are the rating agencies, the investment banks, the Swiss private banks, the “right”, etc.
So one case of “legal” fraud is bad, another case of (surely illegal) fraud is good.
What am I missing?
@Ted G
That Goldman Sachs advised them how to do this?
C’mon Richard, you know you are being disingenuous. Goldman was part of a group of banks that arranged a number of swaps for the Greek government, which by the way had the ultimate authority to enter these swaps, and the duty to disclose their existence,
But….
Goldman did not prepare Greece’s misleading national accounts in 1999 and 2000
Goldman did not lie about Greece’s fiscal position in the first half 2009, and probably again earlier this year for the Euro and Dollar syndicated bond issues
Goldman does not run Greece’s department of defense
Greece misled thousands of investors in its bonds, including you and me through our 401k’s. They stole money from us. Don’t you get that?
So you say you shouldn’t blame the Greeks? Then you say “of course tax evasion” was a problem, and try and blame us offshore residents.
It’s a strange view to have for someone who is so opposed to tax evasion. But I guess generally you only want to punish the rich, and it causes some serious problems when all members of a society are actively evading tax.
I also don’t like being accused of deliberatly facilitating tax evasion, especially when you’ve no idea what I even do for a living!
I was reading yesterday about an island in Greece with 100 inhabitants, 10 of whom are children and 45 of whom are teachers or retired teachers getting a nice salary or pension from the government. I don’t think you need a degree in economics to see that isn’t sustainable.
@mad foetus
I don’t think you need a degree to work out a) that was probably in the Daily mail and b) it might be selective evidence and c) journalistic licence may be involved
@Greg
If you’re not the Greg who regularly supports tax havens and works in financial services I apologise
But how am I meant to know if you wish for anonymity?
I presume it means you’re an abuser of secrecy jurisdictions if you do
@Ted G
OK, on this occasion I agree
As the blog makes clear, I think, of course the Greeks are at fault
And of course they have issues to address
And of course they’ll find that uncomfortable
But the issues are much bigger than any they created and that’s my point – and the one you ignore in your own self interested way
Here is my self interest:
As an investor, I do not want to be lied to, and defrauded on my retiment Dollars;
As an EU taxpayer, I do not want my tax Dollars to wasted away in Greece before one has established some form of accountability.
Waht other agenda do you have that you believe is more important than these two very basic items?
@Ted G
You ask what is more important than you – clearly the only thing of any importance to you
Well I think the ordinary people of Greece are more important than you by a long way
Sure the Greeks did some of the things you say
Their leaders learned from people like you, and the culture you espouse
And yes every Greek needs to pay their tax – somthing you encourage them not to do
But to say you are more important than them is plain straight forward bigotry
I gathered yesterday that saying soemnone is a bigot when they are is not acceptable
I don’t agree
You are a bigot
More than that
You’re a callous, nasty, bigot
Is that clear enough?