Polly Toynbee has written in the Guardian that:
Rightwingers have long used class against any middle-class leftist, a bullying that sidesteps the real political argument. It implies anyone middle class is a traitor to their own by supporting fairer shares. The abuser never explains what's hypocritical about those born privileged arguing on the side of those who are not.
Many commentators here seem to use this ploy. Many more would if I did not block their comments.
It's fascinating that they use the language of the "politics of envy". And yet as far as I can see Polly Toynbee isn't envious at all. Nor am I. We just have concern for social justice.
But that's enough to incite the hatred of the Right. But as Polly Toynbee says, that's all part of their deliberate manipulation in pursuit of their own self interest:
The right spits venom at talk of class, except to sneer at middle-class leftists, but avoids hard facts: a working-class child is 15 times less likely to move upwards than a middle-class child is to stay put. This is no classless society, but a society whose politics conspire to deny it.
Some of us don't deny it. And as Jon Henley noted in his interview with Hanna Segal in the Guardian this week:
speaking our minds takes courage, because groups do not like outspoken dissenters
That's really why the Right don't like those from the middle class who speak out for social justice. We're the enemy within. Long may it continue!
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Guido has it right I think.
“Mary Louisa Toynbee is in fact part of the rarefied metropolitan media elite, she has a comfortable six-figure income and a villa in Tuscany to go with the London townhouse. She is not middle-class by any stretch of the imagination.
Her income is not middle-class, it puts her in the top 1% of earners.
The great grand-daughter of the Earl of Carlisle was privately educated (Badminton), went to Oxford (St Annes) and on to the BBC. A classic metropolitan elite career path. Toynbee is the daughter of the literary critic Philip Toynbee and grand-daughter of the famous historian Arnold J. Toynbee, his uncle was the philanthropist and economic historian Arnold Toynbee after whom Toynbee Hall is named. She was born into three generations of metropolitan elitists.”
Alastair
Don’t you just prove the point by your comment?
We can define middle class in many ways. So what? Why does that make Polly Toynbee the subject of your opprobrium?
Is social dissent unacceptable when from a metropolitan elite?
Of course not, and I’d suggets you’ve simply fllen into the trap Polly has set for you
Richard
don’t know why you think I have fallen into a trap- I don’t particularly have an opinion either way on Polly’s missives. I just think there is no substance to her whinge.
Alastair
Good to hear that in your opinion there is social justice in the UK, a fair distribution of wealth, no exploitation, a perfect housing market, an appropriate safety net for those many occasions when the market fails, a perfect health service and a good tax system.
Richard
You hear no such thing – dangerous to put words into people’s mouths. I have no particular concern for what Polly says because I know it is nonsense. In answer to your specific comments. There is no such thing as social justice, although I do believe that what you do to others will come back to get you. How do you measure wealth, and what do you mean by fair? (BTW I think you mean money rather than wealth?) Exploitation is a fact of life (that is all life!). I might not like it, but I stand more chance of stopping the tide coming in than of changing that. Perfection is in the eye of the beholder – there is certainly a housing market. Markets neither fail nor suceed – they simply are. We have a health service that fails, filled with individuals who must be continually frustrated by the immense and pointless bureaucracy of it all, but in spite of that get up each morning and make a difference. And finally, tax can never be good – its just tax.
Alastair
I find your posting sad
I call it callous and deliberate indifference to the plight of others
You chose to turn a blind eye to what we can clearly change for the well being of our fellow citizens
That’s not putting words into your mouth – it’s what I think they mean
I call your attitude a crime against humanity
A moral crime of course, but a crime none the less
And it’s the sort of crime that any mature human being can, in my opinion, identify by instinct
That is what makes the act a deliberate one, and worthy of complete condemnation
Richard
has it ever occured to you that your fellow citizens might prefer it if you chose not to meddle with their well being? Perhaps you should stand as a candidate in an election, and put your views to a real test of democracy. Mary Louisa Toynbee might be pursuaded to support you 💡
Alastair
Has it occurred to you that in practice (ignore the rhetoric) not one developed economy supports your position
You may be blind, but I find the evidence compelling
Richard