The death of George Floyd has galvanised something that few saw coming. Nothing will overcome the tragedy of the 8 minutes 46 seconds it took for a police officer to kill him. The legacy of that violence and his death will, though, be long-lasting.
And for those who still think that toppling Edward Colston from his plinth in Bristol was wrong, look at the already significant consequences of that as well: the attitude towards the legacy of slave trading is changing for good in this, and other countries. That is overdue.
You can see why those on the right are so angry about all this. And why they hate protest so much. And even why they are so desperate to characterise those ordinary people with wholly legitimate, and completely justified concerns as 'left-wing extremists', 'thugs' and 'criminals'.
People only protest when they are really angry: it takes a lot to tip people over to going onto the streets.
When they do in significant numbers it is almost invariably because what concerns them really matters.
In this case, it is absolutely fundamental to the wellbeing of large parts of our society.
But the status quo is happy as things are. Life has suited them very well. And what protest does is seriously disrupt the trajectory of what they think to be their normality, which they would rather take for granted. And which the protestors want to seriously disrupt. Of course the right will fight back.
I never condone violence. I usually condemn criminal damage. I think peaceful protest is usually more powerful than anything involving violence or damage, and most protestors always know that. But if toppling Edward Colston was the price to pay for bringing forward change that should have happened years and even decades ago, then a bit of damage to some old brass was worth it on this occasion. That damage was far outweighed by the change that his toppling will unleash.
A wise government would recognise that.
We do not have a wise government.
I think there will be many more protests as yet.
NB: On a related theme the Tax Justice Network has a very good blog post on many tax haven and other aspects of this issue here.
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That Twitter feed to the various legacy organisations that Colston’s slavery helped to set up was enough to convince me that the dumping of the statue was justifiable. How dare those people involved in them work against local democracy like they do.
Colston’s legacy to me is as outrageous as his slave trading was. Just who are these people? We need to name them and write letters and have them firmly put in their place. Upstarts – that’s what they are. I bet they’ve got their fingers in all sorts of pies.
“ You can see why those on the right are so angry about all this. And why they hate protest so much. ”
Do you really believe you have to be from “the right” to disagree with violence and breaking the law?
There has been a tiny amount of violence
And inconsequential breaking of the law
Why not keep things in proportion?
My daughter was at the protests in London and for the most part they were peaceful but there were still 50 police offices injured and back to my point it isn’t political at all (right or left) to condone violence and lawbreaking. A yougov survey said a majority were in favour of the statute being taken down but 90% objected to the way it was brought down. So it isn’t left or right it just people having opinions. Not everything has to be politicised
There is literally nothing that is not politicised
“ There is literally nothing that is not politicised”
Well I suppose many try to score points in any outcome but I disagree with your statement as the majority of people are not politically engaged to start with. It is more a case of what’s right or wrong. ..rest assured though, those throwing bottles, fireworks etc at the police and screaming obscenities at black police officers for being “traitors” (my daughter witnessed it) will be the first to run to the police and scream help if they are mugged, robbed or threatened in anyway..the same applies to the many sat behind a keyboard
Oh come on, stop siding with the oppressors
Of course those who rioted were wrong
BLM said so
But stop pretending this means that not all of life is politicised
If you do that you sie with the status quo
And its racist
“There has been a tiny amount of violence”
49 police officers have been injured. One in hospital with a broken collar bone, broken ribs and a collapsed lung.
How many police officers would have to be injured before you stopped calling it a ‘tiny amount’ of violence? Or would it require a dead officer?
The one in hospital was on horseback
Ask why horses were deployed – because they should not have been
I am not condoning any injury
But you are seeking to maintain the status quo of oppression because some were stupid
I condemn you for that
“But stop pretending this means that not all of life is politicised”
And for that now i am a racist !!.. You have truly lost your mind. As it happens i am mixed race and am married to an indian girl! ..actually your attitude is so clearly “bandwagoning” to further your ideology it is really offensive and absolutely not helpful
I have no idea who you are
I am simply saying stop supporting the status quo – because doing so clearly keeps the current racist structure in place
That’s not losing my mind
I am stating a fact
I wish to acknowledge my full agreement with Sir Geoffrey Palmer, the UK’s first black holder of a Chair at a British University. He was born in Jamaica. He does not agree with taking down statues. He memorably expressed it this way: ““I feel that if you remove the evidence you remove the deed.”
The Colston statue removal was a seminal moment, but it is now unique. Not to be repeated with the same impact; ever. Removing statues is a form of ‘air-brushing’ from history; nothing to see here. Oh, but there is. They are going to put a plaque up beside Dundas. No doubt a little plaque. What we need is an array of plaques around the 150 ft monument. There is plenty of room in the gardens. What we need is an adequate explanation; after all the exploitation of human suffering in Jamaica all helped to pay for the beautiful New Town, in which the Dundas monument sits.
Let us have some real history now; for what this has done, above all is remind us all about the importance of history. This is History’s moment. Lest we forget; or never knew.
I don’t agree with removing the evidence
But I do think it belongs in museums where it can be explained
I do not think Professor Palmer would approve of Jamaica Street, Glasgow being changed to another name; and you cannot put a street name in a museum. The street is the object, not the sign. Jamaica Street and Virginia Street were not just names, they represent the importance of Jamaica and Virginia to the business conducted in their vicinity; they are embedded in the real history of the City.
Let me take as an example Edinburgh New Town, in which the Dundas monument sits. Let us suppose Scotland becomes independent. We will continue to live accepting that for 300 years were were part of Britain and Empire; and indeed in many ways the Scots drove British Imperial expansion. What many people do not realise is that James Craig (1739-1795), the genius of the Edinburgh New Town originally planned the structure of the New Town literally to represent the Union flag, on the ground, embedded – if you will – in the foundations and fabric of the New Town (it would only make sense from the air, and nobody in the 18th century would ever see it – it was a vision); this was not carried through apparently, only because the tight corners at the end of the St.Andrews Cross would not produce saleable feus. The basic structure of the central plan of the New Town as built neverthless has the basic St.George’s Cross, the Hanoverian names, and names like Thistle Street, Rose Street, and even Cumberland Street, that echo the intentions of the original plan. Scottish Prebyterianism was Hanoverian. That is our history. We should learn to understand our history, acknowledge our history, learn from it and live with our past.
Black Lives Matter, and I could not agree more. However it is ‘today’ that those lives matter and it is that that we, as a society, should be concerned about.
Whilst I don’t give a jot about statues being toppled I am concerned that the subject has toppled the more current importance about the thousands affected by the Coronavirus from the news.
I am not a wordsmith, so I apologise if this comment upsets anyone. I know how I feel, I just have a problem saying it.
You’re pretty clear!
I saw on the news this week that in the southern US states, they are taking down the statues of Confederate generals.
It’s the local authorities doing the removing. Didn’t see any counter demonstrations with Confederate flags flying.
Strange days Indeed. Not before time.
Victor Hugo might be relevant here
Nothing is stronger than an idea whose time has come. No army can stop an idea whose time has come. Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come.
Agreed
All very well for people to argue that a society should always rely on established law and order to resolve its problems but when the establishment is part of the problem sometimes it’s emotionally literate to take symbolical action like removing an historical icon of repression.
Here’s an example of what happens to an individual seventy five year old Martin Guigino, a peace activist group member and a Christian being a long time member of a Catholic Worker Movement, taking a peaceful approach to the problem of police brutality in the United States especially towards racial minorities:-
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/501784-trump-claims-75-year-old-man-shoved-by-buffalo-police-could-be-part
Not only do the police give him a fractured skull but the leader of the country, president Trump, manufactures lies about him in order to derogate his peaceful protest!
For me the toppling of the Colston statue was appropriate. People are being asked to follow the proper process for this, but I understand in Bristol, many have been trying to find lawful means over almost 30 years to no avail. In that context, as put by one commentator, ‘this isn’t about removing history; it is history’. I liked that.
On other monuments; I am not sure; perhaps, maybe. The #meetoo movement lost much of it’s salt and light once it was hijacked by many who were only offended rather than being damaged by the likes of Weinstein. Things easily get watered down once they are copied. One has to wonder if this watering down is part of the establishment ploy; to get so many involved that it loses its effect.
I wonder.
Next remove the influence of the Merchant Venturers
Agreed!
On the 17th February 2015 during Black History month the Guardian published my letter, under this headline.
Surely, 5years later there is now an even more overwhelming need for this museum.
I look forward to seeing the battered Edward Coulson statue, having been fished out of Bristol Docks, lying in its rightful place.
LET’S HAVE AN EMPIRE MUSEUM OF TERROR
David Reed (Letters, 13 February), referring to David Oyelowo’s article (Ending education’s black history gap, 10 February), says that our children should be told that the “greatness” of Britain came by exploitation of other people, directly as in slavery, indirectly by indentured labour and through our strong colonial presence in much of the world from Africa to Burma and beyond. The Chartist Ernest Jones said about the British empire: “On its colonies the sun never sets and the blood never dries.”
The problem is that the British are in denial about the brutality of our past. Germany has been forced to confront its brutal past. It is now illegal to deny the Holocaust, for example. In Berlin, on the site of Gestapo headquarters, stands the Topographie des Terrors, which catalogues how the Nazis got into power. It pulls no punches and makes clear that it was the German nation, and not just Hitler, that allowed the barbarity of the Holocaust to happen. The message is that they must confront their history and never let this happen again. German children are taught about their nation’s past by, for example, visiting gas chambers.
Most in Britain see the empire as generally a force for good and are blind to the brutality that brought it into existence. Without an insight into this, how can we educate our children, both black and white, to have an understanding of how we got to where we are now?
Is there not a case for a museum, similar to the one in Berlin. A museum of terror about the British empire? We then might all begin to understand why our past meddling has helped cause the present chaos in the Middle East. And our politicians might pursue better, less damaging policies.
David Lucas
Bath
Thanks
Amongst other things at university I studied a paper on American Economic and Social History – including slavery.
We managed fine with books and articles and never once did we feel the need to visit any statues.
As I live in Sheffield I would suggest we take the statues to a local scrap merchant and use the money raised to lower the cost of books and articles.
From what I’ve read about modern Libetarianism , this legacy of the the Confederate states needs to be excised from American politics like the cancer it is.
Read ‘Democracy in Chains’ by Nancy Maclean and also know that the American collegiate voting system is heavily influenced by the ex-confederate states moaning about about being under-represented and see how Trump & Co were able to galvanize their vote in these states and win in 2016.
Great book
The BoE’s 2018 tweet claiming British tax payers have helped pay to end the slave trade
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/12/treasury-tweet-slavery-compensate-slave-owners
was resurrected today on R4’s World at One
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000jw0r (33. 20)
Playing fast and loose with the facts I think, and, as was pointed out at the time, pretty insulting for the descendants of those slaves to be made to believe they have been paying to right a terrible injustice that should never have occurred, and for compensation that shouldn’t have been paid, and through taxes that don’t achieve this end. How many own goals can you score at once?
The claim that the debt was paid in 2015 is decidedly loose with the facts
That a perpetual loan was then repaid at the government’s option was really wholly unrelated to slavery
I have a problem with that claim
By way of putting things into perspective most Americans today are proud of what happened at the Boston Tea Party!
Symbolically to them it was a first step in removing the oppression of British imperialism.
Shame they didn’t fully understand the full extent of oppression and needed to fight a Civil War and now they have yet another internal war to fight.
If I may another excellent Twitter thread
https://twitter.com/katewilliamsme/status/1270717429820190728?s=21
Now shared
I saw it earlier but you prompted me to use it
Thanks
I disagree with you on this issue; history is one of the most important subjects that everyone should study to understand why we are where we are today and learn from the mistakes of the past, of which of course there were many. But who are we to judge the past through the lens of the values of today? A statue evokes lots of different emotions. Not everyone will visit a museum or read a history book. Few will challenge the accepted view of history which is usually recorded by the victors. The more evidence that exists of right and wrong doings the more chance that thinking people will study and make up their own minds.
If slavery is to be abhorred – which it is – then what would you have done with St Georges Hall in Liverpool – a veritable monument to slavery – as are the great buildings on the waterfront? Sensibly these are left as reminders of the past and an excellent record of slavery and Liverpool’s past in it in contained at the Maritime Museum.
And what of modern day slavery which destroys lives today: wouldn’t protesters be better focusing their energies on something where they can make a meaningful difference. We cannot change history but the more ways we can learn from it the better.
Noel
The point where we disagree is on history being a fact that cannot be changed.
There are, of course, some facts and history that we cannot change, like dates, for example. But, the vast majority of history is about the interpretation of facts, and that depends upon the lens through which we view it. We can change our lens. We should when it is wrong. And that is what is think this is about.
Richard
Is what we think it to be through the lens through which we view it
I see what you mean and perhaps we don’t disagree that much. A great deal of British history (such as some of the things we did in the interest of building the Empire) we would frown on through today’s lens and rightly so. But to destroy the evidence is surely wrong. If the hard-of thinking cannot view history dispassionately and think for themselves then we miss much of the lesson that civilisation is an ongoing process. Long may we be able to debate – and disagree – peacefully. The real sadness is when people feel the need to resort to violence.
Keep up your good work.
I agree re the violence
But we do need to reframe and recall – but not have statues to what we have moved on from
A simple example. When I was a child my parents were big fans of the Black and White Minstrel Show on BBC1
Ignore the crap music and dancing – it was utterly appalling and profoundly racist, but completely tolerated at the time
We need to recall that this happened in our (my) lifetime but certainly not show it on television. It can be on a museum loop to explain it. But to show it would be like still having the statue out in public – and so utterly unacceptable
Till Death Us Do Part. At least they don’t show that any longer.
That was banned in my house, even then…like others …. On the Buses, Benny Hill and much else was considered beyond the Pale