My Green New Deal colleague, Colin Hines, had this letter in the Guardian today:
Oxford University's call for a green stimulus for the economy and Polly Toynbee's demand for a dramatically fairer reversal of the impact of “wealth on health” could both be addressed by a nationwide Green New Deal programme (Poverty kills people: after coronavirus we can no longer ignore it, 5 May).
This would allow a way out of the economic collapse caused by coronavirus, while rebuilding our social infrastructure and tackling the climate emergency. It can also provide new jobs and huge opportunities for businesses. At its heart must be a labour-intensive social infrastructure that rebuilds our austerity battered public services. The prioritisation of green infrastructure will require a shift of economic priorities towards more decentralised local economies that reduce carbon emissions and air pollution, minimise the throughput of raw materials, provide long-term food security and protect biodiversity.
This radically new approach will involve listening to climate experts, funding the transition needed through massive government borrowing and introducing policies to curb our “freedoms” to travel, eat and consume in ways that threaten the planet. It is a Green New Deal imperative to tackle both the social and climate crisis that must emerge as the exit strategy from coronavirus.
Colin Hines
Convenor, UK Green New Deal Group
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But we’ve got a Tory government and they will do anything to stay in power. By anything, I mean anything that will please the elite 1% and the right wing media. That is all that is necessary. When the only messages you hear are supportive ones for the government and ones that trash the opposition the human mind craves in and believes the bullshit. That is how bad things have got. We could be heading for a death toll of 100,000 and people will still vote that Boris is doing a great job. Real change in the past has required blood, either in battle or on the streets. I don’t think death numbers from a virus have the same effect when you have a government that blames the scientists, the nurses and doctors. Remember, the firemen effectively got the blame for Grenfell Tower. We are dealing with political psychopaths who will cling on to power whatever it takes.
I know epidemiologists who think that 100,000 is ludicrous
I know the military is planning for many more
I am not so sure that it will happen.
I am renovating a 110+ year old rock and rubble cottage.
A very enthusiastic rep knocked on the door talking about chemical based loft insulation, I informed him that only Sheep Wool insulation was suitable for this type and age of property.
It is also environmentally friendly and plentiful.
He looked at me puzzled and said that it was not on offer.
I have also had difficulty convincing builders to use lime and other natural materials.
“Why lime, why not use concrete?”
I had the same problem when purchasing.
“It needs a damp and timber “Specialist” to check it”
One came out and recommended all sorts of unnecessary chemicals and damp treatments, oblivious to the fact that copious amounts of cement, plasterboard and non breathable materials had caused the problems in the first place.
There seems to be too much vested interests to make the Green New Deal a success.
See my previous posts on problems being realised with Cavity Wall Insulation.
Have a look at Pete Ward’s Heritage House website:
https://www.heritage-house.org/
It shows what can be done with natural green materials.
And a proper GND would offer what was required
Yep a “proper one”..and what do you know about building materials. Have you ever worked on a building site? Have you ever procured building materials? Can you understand architectural designs? Do you understand building regulations?…no you can’t. So what do you understand to be “proper”?
You don’t know any of that
But I do know that you appear to here to troll
Please don’t bother to call again
@ Jim Round – convert here – we have been doing much the same with a lath and plaster timber framed house for the past 7 years. Our home is much warmer and comfortable having replaced cement with lime and rockwool with wool, had the timbers repaired in green oak and so on.
I too sound a cautious note about renovating/insulating older properties. I fear that HMG will give out contracts to their mates without properly consulting. This has clearly been the case in the current pandemic.
I am much in favour of the Green New Deal, but is does require a much more collaborative approach if it is to greatly improve life for the many.
I wholeheartedly agree
Living as I do in a 350 year old cottage, I can relate to all of that. Finding builders who are in any way sympathetic or competent is a real problem. Let alone people interested in how one make it a lot more ‘eco’
Thanks for the link Jim R
1) Rishi Sunak has (apparently) spent £8bn so far on the furlough scheme & projected to potentially spend £30bn by July.
2) Hearing utterances of moaning about aforesaid scheme; can anyone clarify how much of the £330bn business loans support package has been distributed by Banks & ‘Regional Funding Providers’ ?
3) To avert an ongoing economic disaster, going forward, would it not make absolute sense for the Treasury to requisition those remaining funds FORTHWITH (if they are NOT being distributed swiftly to the intended recipients) & utilise them to expand & extend the furlough scheme ?
4) Furthermore, would it not also make perfect sense for the remainder of the substantial amount of remaining funds to be redistributed/reallocated to ALL UK residents; in the form of a direct economic stimulus package upon the crisis subsiding/abating ?
Instead of the £ residing on these institutions balance sheets & artificially inflating their financial positions for the foreseeable future, acting as a subsidy in all but name.
5) The money has in essence already been ‘created’ & ‘spent’ by HM Government, hence it will not technically be an increase in Government spending.
6) This money redistributed/reallocated in the form of an UK residents economic stimulus grant (RESG) will provide a massive direct economic stimulus for the whole country & will see £ circulating from the bottom upwards, as it filters through the economy.
7) Either way that £ will be spent, saved or invested in some form in the short, medium & long term going forward by ALL the recipients & therefore will have a lasting positive social & economic impact upon the whole country.
Rather than the £ just languishing & NOT performing any useful function or adding value to the economy.
8) So, an approximate & realistic example would be, £80bn has been provided to businesses; there remains approximately £250bn, & there are 68mn people resident in the UK, that would mean £3676 for every individual to spend & to revitalise the whole UK economy when we are given the all clear.
9) Thoughts everyone, maybe stipulate 50% of aforementioned grant for ‘green’ spending purposes ?
Not all of that does make sense
For example, the case for helicopter money has not been made
And this is too crude a basis for economic mamnagement
1) It may be unrefined & might be short on detail, as I don’t have the detailed knowledge & experience of the entire system as you do Richard, however can anyone present a more nuanced proposal to stave off an impending economic crisis ?
2) https://www.bloomberg.com/quicktake/helicopter-money
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-markets-column-idUSKBN2142RO
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/23/could-europe-opt-for-helicopter-money-to-deal-with-coronavirus.html
3) “The private sector, households and companies are being hurt by a major natural disaster, COVID-19,” said Yves Bonson, chief investment officer at Switzerland’s Julius Baer Group…“Losses must be offset by monetization, otherwise a severe recession, followed by several years of chronic deflation, will ensue.”
4) Without the fundamentals securely in place, everything else fails.
If that is indeed a crude basic for economic management, then how do we expect to have anything more complex stably deriving from it?
I have done it many times here Samson
Start with the Green New Deal
Move on from there
I cannot restart again now: sorry
Search the economics and coronavirus categories for starters
Hi Samson, Rishi Washi has not actually provided £330 billion. What he has done is to provide a guarantee to the banks for up to that amount. So this is a licence for the banks to create up to £330 billion via the process Richard outlined in his Electronic Money post, i.e. by splitting debits and credits. So unfortunately there is no remaining balance to re-allocate as he has never actually spent a single pound of any of this so far (though he will when folks can’t repay). What he could do is to actually genuinely spend the cash which then creates what could be considered as ‘debt free money’. In this case the debt lies with the Treasury and the recipients simply have cash. He can do that any time he likes by simply running up the overdraft the Treasury has at the BoE. Providing a guarantee is a sort of slight of hand that provides big headlines (£330 billion) while not as yet actually costing anything at all. Just like if you have a child who buys a house and you guarantee the mortgage.
The banks will therefore collect the 2.5% pa interest for doing essentially nothing and they have the guarantee so they don’t care if the clients repay or not. He could have provided grants, cut the banks out of the picture and then reclaimed the payments via e.g. taking a shareholding, corporation tax etc.
Thanks Tim
Loans which are 100% backed by the state (bounce back loans) isn’t it in the banks interest for the loans to default? If the loan defaults they get the arrangement fee, and all the capital plus interest much sooner; nice work if you can get it.
Ross
You really are very boring
Unless you can really engage sensibly – and the evidence is scant – please assume you will be deleted
Richard
Tedium, is always a matter of perspective. To wit, I’m sure many find your ceaseless trumpeting the a green new deal, rather less than enthralling.Given the ideological direction of travel of the current administration, it’s also little more than magical thinking. I deal in facts, and call out bad policy and the attendant injustices it creates. You seem so taken with your own sense of perspicacity, and the economic remedies that flow from it, that you’ve created a discursive monoculture
If it is a monoculture then it is an unusually effective one
You know about the GND, which Colin Hines and I pretty much kept going via this blog for several years when no one paid attention. They do now
And note posts later today on country-by-country reporting
I think you need to go and play elsewhere Ross