I keep feeling as if things cannot get more surreal. And then they do.
We already have talk of food and medicine stockpiling in advance of Brexit.
And now there is, apparently, discussion of the army being prepared to keep order and distribute emergency supplies in the case of the no deal Brexit that some in the Cabinet want.
It takes a moment to recall that no one voted for this. We voted, in a rigged election, where abuse was rife and foreign interference almost certain, to leave the EU. We did not vote for hard Brexit. Nor did we vote to bring the country to a situation where measures only usually associated with war might be considered necessary.
But if we did not vote for this, who is, then, to blame for it? And for all that might happen, come to that?
Whatever the failings of other politicians (and by no means all are exonerated) the only organisation that can be blamed is the Conservative Party.
As Politics Home notes today, a plan to issue briefings on the consequences of Hard Brexit has been put on hold:
The proposal was reportedly killed off by a senior official in the Brexit department this week, amid fears that it could spook voters.
A source told the [Sunday Times]: "People will sh*t themselves and think they want a new referendum or an election or think the Tory party shouldn't govern again.
"MPs are saying: ‘If this is done badly, it could hurt us like sleaze did in the 1990s'."
Just consider that for a minute. All the source worried about was a) the impact on the Tories and b) the prospect of retaining power. That there was a real issue of concern seems to have passed them by.
And that is why the Tories are to blame.
But still they carry on wrecking the country in the interests of their puerile internecine squabbling.
I despair.
I even wonder if actual civil war would now stop them. I am beginning to doubt it.
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How exactly would the army, undermanned as it is, distribute any food and meds which might be available? It sounds a bit silly really. Were there going to be food and medicine available, there’d be no need for the army’s intervention at all. Were there none, or very little, there’d be nothing for them to distribute. One wonders what plans the supermarkets have for paying their staff in the event of acute food shortages, or the government have for paying the inevitable huge rise in benefit claimants. Personally, I’m starting to wonder which will kill me first, shortage of thyroxine, or shortage of blood pressure meds. Interesting times. Hopefully not the end of my personal days though.
I hope not
Army (& RAF) transport will have access to fuel in the event that the public (including all those supermarket distribution lorries) will not.
I’m in the same boat. Need thyroxine to keep me alive and also blood pressure tablets!!!
We must hope there’s safety in numbers, and that we’re so numerous Big Pharma won’t want to lose us and will devise a way around political impediments. On which subject, I wouldn’t think the Tories are very popular in some circles, looking at the lasting damage they’re likely to inflict on local and national markets.
It is indeed jaw-dropping in its irresponsibility and total neglect of public weal. The most fanciful of imaginings can’t even come close.
Carole Cadwalladr’s Twitter stream of something of the full range of these ‘ads’ planted in facebook , apparently illegitimately funded and clearly (to me) in breach of the most basic of electoral laws, is utterly frightening. This is nihilist contempt for law, reason and the public good – and yet the Tory Party is continuing to promote the poisonous result. These people are surely the biggest betrayers of Britain’s true interests of all time – and the only peaceful means of arresting this, lie in the hands of the most craven MPs of all time.
Do they – Tory AND Labour MPs – really not see that both their leaderships are betraying everyone to chaos?
This is the time in history when back-benchers have to recover the country – or there soon may be little of it left for which to care at all.
I’m following her Twitter stream too, it’s what informs my opinion. However, I note Cummings has responded https://dominiccummings.com/2018/07/27/on-referendum-24l-fake-news-from-the-fake-news-committee-carole-and-a-rematch-against-the-public/
Depressing stuff
Depressing indeed. Cummings ‘reply’ is a simply amazing confection of special pleading, technical obfuscation and wildly diversionary smearing. The extended ramble about terrorism (near the start) seems to have no purpose save to divert from the real issues and smear a whole new randomised ‘dark enemy’ – the mephistophelean “SW1”. Time and again after ranting about being unfairly attacked, he then doubles down on some of the most nakedly deceitful elements of the Leave campaign – ending with a triumphalist, threatening rant, full of Breximaniac wishful ‘thinking’ and assertions of blissful isolationist – and presumably “SW1″free – future. If this is the best the defence of their actions can do, no wonder we are where we are – heading for economic, social and political disaster.
But he was part of SW1
That is what is so bizarre about such people
True, Richard – but it’s never about ‘facts’, not even of their own lives. It is about ‘faith’ and ‘belief’. Reading this is one thing, but meeting it ‘face to face’ is a scary experience.
I’m not the least surprised that the military has been put on stand-by. Based on the evidence of this unravelling drama I’d say civil war is a possible outcome. The hard right is intransigent and quite prepared to override the democratic process, sowing the classic seeds of fascism – probably more akin to the Spanish Civil War than the rise of Mussolini.
With weak, divided Tory Party leadership and a nationally unpopular leader of the Opposition, there is a widening power vacuum that should set off warning signals to everyone.
As mentioned previously, Steve Bannon is up to no good – https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/steve-bannon-movement-ukip-brexit-a8464846.html.
One can only hope and pray that the more moderate element within the Conservative Party coalesce against their hard right colleagues. But, whatever the outcome of Brexit, there will be civil unrest that could escalate into dangerous, unknown territory. It’s increasingly looking as though this episode in our history will end ‘not with a whimper but with a bang’.
The Tory moderates are probably torn between two (to them) evils, allowing the Brexiteers to tear the country apart on the one hand, or unite against them, tearing the Tory party apart and inviting a Corbyn government into power on the other.
theres an interesting twitter thread about the availability of insulin post brexit – the UK dosent make any (bar some very specialist types and even those is v small volume) so we are reliant on EU supplies. in a no deal brexit the fear is they cant be supplied to the UK due to lack of drug conformity rules etc. You cant stockpile insulin on prescription as you can only get a months worth in advance
a lot of worried diabetics are relying on the fact it will get sorted as Theresa may needs it as much as them. very sobering discussion.
That’s a big issue….
I’ve read that feed & tried to get an answer to these points:
– assuming the EU companies want to continue selling their insulin to the UK, then the conformance issue is for the UK to decide not the EU, unless the EU bans the sale of life saving drugs to the UK.
– we import insulin from the USA as well
– Wockhardt produce insulin in Wrexham (http://www.wockhardt.co.uk)
Ah, so your argument is we abandon controls
I am sure insulin users are comforted by that
Is it now ‘Losing control’ rather than taking it back? It looks like it
My biggest worry now is that wealth disparities will mean that only the more wealthy will really get by because they will be able to afford inflated prices for goods that will be inevitable result of any shortages leaving too little for those of lesser or no means of keeping up. It’s sobering to think about things in this way. Unrest is ready and waiting.
I at least thought that there would be an orderly withdrawal from Europe but it seems that we are even incapable of that. I’m astounded and embarrassed enough that we are leaving but ………….leaving this badly?? Even Dunkirk was better organised than this and what a mess that was.
In a decent world, opposition parties of all persuasions would really have stopped this Government in its tracks and had them thrown out. But BREXIT is such a toxic issue.
I have mentioned this before but I’ve been watching the PBS documentary on Vietnam of 2017 and although many presidents knew they could not win, the US still pushed forward with their war. The hardest thing to do was to stop – despite an ever increasing chorus of advice to do so from many knowledgeable and trustworthy people both inside and outside of Government that that golden generation was able to have in its midst.
And why did the Americans not stop? Because of their ideological fear of the spread of Communism. Even Kennedy was afflicted by this.
The story of Vietnam is that if the good politicians do not do the right thing then you get someone like Nixon – a scumbag. And that is the question I ponder now. After May – who will run the Tories?
Good question
I have no clue
And she’s not even a good politician.
Well el Deco I disagree to some extent.
To have survived this long means that she might be a good politician by the (lower) modern standards of the day.
But is she a leader? That is the question for me.
And she is not in my view.
As Jack Monroe likes to point out “There isn’t even adequate food in Britain NOW. 1.5m people use food banks. 500k of those are children. 1 in 4 single mums skip meals to feed their children.”
If the Conservatives aren’t actually already creating a failed state, when half the population are queuing up at foodbanks they sure will have done.
I suspect Monroe neglects the fact we throw vast amounts of food away before it even gets near the shelves on the grounds it’s unsightly. In the event of shortages, I imagine supermarkets will stock their shelves with anything they can get rather than close up. If the supply of food does get so expensive it can only be afforded by a few, then expect what little there is to be stolen and in short order too. Those container lorries sitting in traffic jams around the ports will no doubt prove far too tempting a target to be left alone. If it comes to it, food production will probably cease altogether unless supplies can be made available to all at affordable prices, because every source, and I mean the farms themselves, will simply be raided for what they have to hand with no thought of future provision. How could we come back from such a scenario? Only by the imposition of an external force, I’d think, one capable of keeping order both through force and and through making sufficient provision of essentials. Who could do that? Russia, perhaps? China? Who knows?
China? Russia? I should think not, even in a world where they were omnipresent. No, if somebody were to invade us for our own good, I don’t think there’s any question that it would be the European Union. And if that happened, the universe might just collapse from the irony.
No need to worry, Peter. I’m confident that we’ll never get to the state where half the population will be queueing up a foodbanks. Foodbanks are stocked mainly by donations from low to middle income people. When those people run out of food, there’ll be no-one queueing up at foodbanks. They’ll be empty.
Worryingly true
Isn’t the “cunning plan” that it will all end in martial law with Lord Snooty of Serfland as El Supremo?
I find it highly unlikely that the army has the resources to distribute food and keep civil order for the entire UK. Richard has clearly missed the most important thing however, has Corbyn said anything that may be construed as anti semetic today? Or Billy Bragg? The media have lost the plot on this.
Not to worry. The Guardian is allowing Ian Austin, not one but two cracks at Corbyn via two different articles !
Contingency plans that envisage the army being used to discharge this role in Northern Ireland creates its own set of risks.
I remember the outworkings of a previous occasion when troops were deployed to Northern Ireland to “aid the civil power”.
And still those supporting Corbyn unquestioningly say ‘let the Tories own the Brexit mess’. When the disastrous mess happens, how will that look? Will saying ‘I told you so’ really command respect? Or when people are suffering the consequences, with food, medecine and other shortages, might they ask whether Corbyn ‘s Labour could have stopped it?
To my certain knowledge this has been Corbyn policy since March 2016
I was shocked then
Now it is pure irresponsibility
There is no excuse for Labour’s failure to call this out now
Except that, for the Mail / Sun / Telegraph readers this continues to be “project fear” – so if Labour intervenes they will have thwarted Brexit and the sunny uplands that would have been possible. I fear for this country as I truly do not see how a significant % of those who voted Brexit are ever going to accept that they were sold a pot of lies about how the future could be. Even as we crash out into chaos it will be the EU’s fault not ours.
More worryingly we don’t manufacture insulin – it’s all imported.
Apologies for the delphic nature of my previous posting. In 1969, the army were called out ‘in aid of the civil power’ and had the benefit of a honeymoon period. Today the environment is less conducive, with the MOD having to respond to legacy (of the Troubles) issues on behalf of the army.
IMO the bulk of the Conservatives push N. Ireland out of the picture as it’s too awkward for their vision(s) of Brexit and/or their dependence on the support of the DUP.
Just how willing will the army be?
I am reading Naomi Klein’a Shock Doctrine. She describes times when a crisis has been used to introduce extreme neo-liberal measures as in Chile or Bolivia or Russia.
In the event of a no deal Brexit we are told planes couldn’t fly, many imports would become liable to tariffs and isotopes and medicines could stop flowing. These things would also hurt other European countries so do we assume some arrangements would be rushed though at the eleventh hour in a huge bundle of measures? Or shortly afterwards as the crisis deepens?
I am not given to conspiracy theories but I am wondering if some would welcome such a crisis in order to bring in a range of reactionary measures. A very British coup.
The best dea has occurred to many here
Naomi Klein book is the blueprint for what is happening here in the UK. Everything else is propaganda to hide the truth.
Craig Dalzell of Common Weal discusses many of the issues of “supply & demand” and the “roadblocks”. https://thecommongreen.scot/2018/07/29/demanding-supplies-supplying-demand/
The bottom line is that those with wealth will be ok, they can stockpile or go abroad, while, as it the Tory way, it’ll be the poor that suffer. Will there be a revolution? I doubt it, the British are too passive.
Stockpile? Where everything operates on JIT. Has anyone who should matter talked to Farmers; Supermarkets, and Manufacturers of food stuffs. No prizes for this. A big fat no. If only there was a Minister’s got talent type of show where we subbed in Richard for Simon. Now there’s a show I’d watch.
Marcus, I think this piece by Ian Dunt goes a long way to answer your question:
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/07/27/this-is-what-no-deal-brexit-actually-looks-like
Excellent piece which summarises the situation. It is telling that we hear nothing like this from the BBC, explaining just what the impact of a hard Brexit will be. Why, I keep asking?
Time to get my old Primus stove and Tilley lamp working again, and and stock up at Lidl/Aldi. It has occurred to me that if enough of us went out and made a point of buying in bulk conspicuously, explaining to all around us why we were doing it, we could create an early panic. That in itself might make people more aware of what is going to hit them
Tins last a long time….
Pasta not so long
It may not be exciting, but it’s food
Craig explains in his piece why companies, the NHS and others cannot possibly stockpile. I said that well off individuals can, whether that’s moral or helpful is another question.
Tangentially relevant: I’ve just received this from Greenpeace, which others will have too. It further confirms my fear that a no-deal Brexit is being orchestrated by a well-funded anti-European Anglo-American clique – https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2018/07/29/iea-hard-brexit-think-tank-access-ministers.
I am sure Greenpeace are right
I have put this up before but it backs up your point
Note the sponsors – Heritage Foundation, Cato Institute etc
http://ifreetrade.org/event/ideal_fta_launch
After the referendum Farage thanked Bannon for Breibart’s help. I saw the Breibart post when checking them out.
Yet we still see the gullible saying Brexit is a revolt of the working class against ‘globalists’. The gullible and Telegraph writers that is.
Fantasy land…
Its a check list of every extreme neo-liberal organisation you can think of. The linkages have been around and known about for years though little reported on and it used to be thought of as paranoia to point it out.
People like Adam Curtis have made great documentaries on the subject which are worth checking out if you’ve not seen them. Bizarre to think they were on the BBC, which would run a mile from exposing whats going on now. The Barclay brothers (Telegraph), Rothermeres and Murdochs are of course long-standing members of that clique, which explains their newspapers positions. I suspect that Putin’s oligarchs will now be members of the club as they share their interests, utter ruthlessness and disdain for the rest of humanity.
When people throw around the terms ‘elites’ and ‘the establishment’, they are referring to all sorts of different groups that they happen to dislike. The terms have become unhelpful. There is only one elite, establishment group that we should really worry about and its the one we are talking about here.
”There is only one elite, establishment group that we should really worry about and its the one we are talking about here”
Interesting. My feeling is that it is not necessarily as clear-cut as that. There is clearly an ‘elite’ push for a hard-Brexit, supported by a panopoly of powerful dodgy neoliberals and those who stand to make a killing out of the UK’s demise. However, there has historically also been a ‘British Establishment’, as memorably portrayed in ‘A Very British Coup’, and elsewhere, who do not hesitate to pull their punches when their interests (which are most often conflated with the national interest) are threatened. Is it too much to hope that at least some of the traditional British Establishment will attempt to stand in the way of a most likely disastrous ‘no-deal’ Brexit?
Is it wishful thinking to suppose that, should the Tories end up attempting a no-deal Brexit, the plug will swiftly be pulled on the government, a general election will be called, a Labour government will be installed. Of course, that would only happen if the Labour leadership have privately made the right sort of noises and assurances to the right Establishment figures to keep them in the game.
There’s an instructive exercise to be done to construct a Venn diagram showing all those groups who might be regarded as ‘elites’. Or the ‘establishment’. In parallel with that, to identify who it is who regards them as elites, and why.
As you suggest Jim, there is (still I think) a traditional establishment, perhaps including the One Nation Tories (an almost extinct species) who regard the neoliberal gang with almost as much horror as the Left.
Mr Green,
I think you are right. It is an oversimplification to write of ‘the’ establishment. It suggests a singularity; not least of purpose, organisation, cohesion, understanding; and effect. If there were such an establishment it might be expected, frankly, to be doing a better job. This belief, like so much in Britain, is an illusion. I do not mean there is no direction at all: but it is partial, half-baked, dissonant; full of ambiguities, inconsistencies, muddles; areas of attempted or mutually agreed, misunderstood commonality, but this is Britain; petty, ill-informed and arrogant; in short, everything is not quite as it seems, still less as the public PR and media spin would wish, but cannot even deliver. This is Britain, the country which has a special talent for disinformation, and in the 21st century we have surpassed ourselves. We have finally undermined our own credibility – deliberately. We do not believe in anything or anybody anymore, for good reason. Britain has ‘form’ in the matter of informing the public. The country hangs together now, it seems on reliance on the continued gullibility and deep political inertia of the people.
Let me put it this way: virtually the only thing that seems to work well in Britain, is EU cross-border JIT. Ah, the irony; so well nobody even notices it is there. Everything else in Britain we know is there, only because it isn’t there, or it doesn’t work, or it is closed. That is what we can look foward to; everything being closed, off, or not working. Why? Because Brexit means Brexit. You had better believe it.
Here’s one example of elites. https://www.suttontrust.com/research-paper/the-educational-backgrounds-of-the-nations-leading-people/
I consider these people have posed and continue to pose the greatest danger to any democratic reforms and the creation of a fair society, for a multitude of reasons, among which cronyism, which enables the mediocre to rise without trace to the top positions, is one of the most detrimental.
See “Posh Boys – how the English public schools ruin Britain” by Robert Verkaik.
What army would that be? Austerity budgets have reduced the numbers and many are deployed overseas. I cannot believe that you and your intelligent readership are falling for this obvious scare tactic.
Even if there was an issue with food imports, perhaps we can just throw less away, eat a bit less and more local, tighten our belts and start digging now.
The insulin one is another joke. Big pharma, food and dieting companies make millions from bogus health education that makes us eat crap, then sells drugs and false advice to make us better. Sensible advice is available to reduce insulin prescription for the majority of type 2 diabetics ensuring supplies should be available for those who really need it. I’d be surprised if the companies that profit from the current gravy train won’t find ways to maintain their Uk sales.
An agreement with EU would be the sensible course but that takes two sides willing to negotiate. I am not sure we have one, let alone two. If we end up crashing out, headless chicken mode won’t help. That risks falling into the hands of those in the 1% who think they can take charge and put Britain on a buccaneering path most of us don’t want to follow.
People and local communities will need to strengthen self reliance and elect politicians who will help them to do it.
I am afraid Phil you are living in cloud cuckoo land
You really think Brexit is going to change behaviour massively overnight so that we all eat better and use less insulin?
That won’t happen and so the Brexit crisis will happen
But I agree with your last comment
If it wasn’t for the vested corporate interests shaping this governments policies we would have serious health campaigns on both the food we eat and our attitude to obesity and diabetes.
I agree these matters cannot be changed overnight but sensible planning to address them should start now in any event. To my mind the amount of food waste and human health consequences of the current laissez faire approach are just as shameful as a crash out Brexit.
I can’t argue with that
And as chief cook of the households do I do worry about these things
Stockpiling of food? But surely food shortages would only appear if we refuse to allow imports of food. Or if the EU suppliers refuse to send us any.
Also, what about the glut of lamb and Mr Kipling cakes etc we would have to eat if Europe were to put up the shutters and won’t accept any food imports?
What nonsense . .
I suggest that you, like a rash of others appearing here today, need to do a bit if reading
Start here http://foodresearch.org.uk/publications/feeding-britain-food-security-after-brexit/
One is repeatedly struck by the astonishing lack of understanding of most of those arguing for Brexit, of how the products and services we take for granted actually get to us. In the case of the Goves and Johnson’s it’s a case of deceit but for others we seem to have a nationwide epidemic of Dunning-Kruger.
One could argue that of course it’s all the EU27s fault. First they put in place all these organisations and mechanisms, by and large to protect us. Then they put in place processes and procedures so that it all happens seamlessly and without delay so that we don’t even notice…
Bandwidth Limit Exceeded
The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to the site owner reaching his/her bandwidth limit. Please try again later.
People want to know…
How appropriate! That foodresearch link currently returns:
Bandwidth Limit Exceeded
Maybe it should be Breadwidth instead…
🙂
….. and if you want to give yourself a scare have a look through the Civil Contingences Act (2004)
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/36/contents
@ Nigel Mace & Richard Murphy
Can you please tell me what SW1 stands for? I googled it and this is what came up. None make any sense in the context of your two comments at beginning of this thread.
http://acronymsandslang.com/SW1-meaning.html
Basically it is Westminster
Many thanks for that bit of slang info. It helps to know these things when trying to follow a thread; now it makes much more sense.
I knew full well it couldn’t mean Steel Worker 1st Class or Steel Worker Petty Officer 1st class. The W1 explanation on the link I provided confused me. West of 1 what? The West End? I didn’t think so.
I don’t know whether I’m relieved or dissapointed that you and Nigel Mace weren’t referring to Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace. That sounds about right to me (smilie ‘Wink’ here; Written not Visual as I don’t know how to post those pesky smilies.)
I think : ) joined together does it
P.S.
Showing my ignorance here but I used to live in SW4 (Stockwell) for about 8 years. I always thought SW1 was Kensington; I didn’t realise it also incorporates Westminster. Kensington kind of made sense, but not really if you know what I mean. However Westminster does in the context in which SW1 was refered to. Like most things in life, bloody obvious when you think about it… Durr!
I had my SW4 days – more the Clapham North end before it gentrified
Happy times!
One of the links posted earlier led me to this, from the front line of keeping people fed: http://marksimonfrankland.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-government-in-london-says-we-all.html
“The Government in London says we all need to make plans for a hard Brexit. As a food bank manager, I guess they mean me. I’ve tried to make a plan. Believe me, it’s a bloody nightmare.”
And while reading this post, and thinking of the government, Ozymandius came to mind “Look on my works … and despair”