As Politics Home has reported:
MSPs voted 93-30 not to give legislative content to the EU Withdrawal Bill, which the Government says is essential to prevent legal chaos on day one of Brexit.
The Scottish government has accused the Conservatives of a "power grab" because it will mean some areas which are currently devolved will initially come under Westminster control when they are returned from Brussels.
A commentator asked on this blog who now was representing the 48% who voted to remain in the EU. I think the answer is 'Scotland'. And not just a party in Scotland: a cross-party coalition in Scotland is doing so; the Tories being the exceptions, of course.
At least one parliament in the UK realises where its duty lies. It's just a shame it's not the one at Westminster.
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The wording of the Bill so far as affecting Scotland is Orwellian. As the Scottish Parliament must give consent to any changes affecting the Powers of the Scottish Parliament the Bill re-defines “consent” in the following terms:-
Clause 15.2 (4) For the purposes of subsection (3) a consent decision is–
(a) a decision to agree a motion consenting to the laying of the draft,
(b) a decision not to agree a motion consenting to the laying of the draft, or
(c) a decision to agree a motion refusing to consent to the laying of the draft;
So whether we say “yes”, “no” or “we won’t agree” we have given consent. Is there any Parliament in the world that could possibly agree to that?
None…
Re BabsP’s question ” Is there any Parliament in the world that could possibly agree to that?” The answer is yes: the sham Parliament of a totalitarian state. For example, the military government in Brasil in the 1970s.
Voting in elections was compulsory, but the generals were firmly in control, while the so-called opposition politicians were nominated by the generals after vetting, presumably to make sure they toed the generals’ line. It didn’t matter who won the election, although mysteriously it always seemed to be the military’s party, even though the military government was widely despised. Rule by diktat was commonplace even though they had no idea who Henry VIII was!
While I wouldn’t claim the UK is a one-party state (a charge often heard about the Scotland even though we’ve got a PR voting system), an authoritarian UK government prepared to manufacture “consent” and a supine opposition make for a disturbing direction of travel.
BabsP asks:
So whether we say “yes”, “no” or “we won’t agree” we have given consent. Is there any Parliament in the world that could possibly agree to that?”
It’s an utterly grotesque abuse of language, which in turn shows complete contempt for the Scottish Parliament, not just the governing party, but the whole concept of a Scottish Parliament having any role to play. In short the Tories are wilfully seeking to undermine the political process in Scotland.
Bear in mind, too, that Scotland voted by a substantial margin in the EU referendum to remain in the EU, so the Tories are using Brexit, which Scotland rejected, to disempower a Parliament which the Scots voted overwhelmingly in favour of creating. Lovely people! And they ask us to trust them!
In view of what you have reported to us, babsP, it would seem that when “MSPs voted 93-30 not to give legislative content to the EU Withdrawal Bill”, then under “Clause 15.2 (4) For the purposes of subsection (3) a consent decision is– (c) a decision to agree a motion refusing to consent to the laying of the draft;” constitutes a “consent”
My, it’s a rum old world, when midnight is deemed to be midday! Straight out of Lewis Carroll and “The Walrus and they Carpenter”
“The sun was shining on the sea,
Shining with all his might:
He did his very best to make
The billows smooth and bright –
And this was odd, because it was
The middle of the night.
The moon was shining sulkily,
Because she thought the sun
Had got no business to be there
After the day was done –
“It’s very rude of him,” she said,
“To come and spoil the fun.”
At least the Communists were honest enough crooks to either fiddle or fix the votes, to give the appearance of winning.
By contrast, the Tories are running a nag in the Derby, designed to come in last, and still be declared the winner. Bizarre in the extreme, quite apart from the affront to democracy and meaning of words.
They’ve clearly been taking lessons from Humpty Dumpty, as in “Through the Looking-glass” – “words mean whatever I want them to mean”!
Andrew Dickie says:
“They’ve clearly been taking lessons from Humpty Dumpty, as in “Through the Looking-glass” — “words mean whatever I want them to mean”!”
Given the satirical nature of Carrol’s work, I guess we must assume that t’was ever thus in politics.
” Bizarre in the extreme, quite apart from the affront to democracy and meaning of words.”
I think it stems from the feeling of having power and is an extension of the parental ‘because I say so….’ rationale for unquestioning obedience. It is indeed inimical to democracy. Quite dangerously so, because true motives are never openly declared. Always there is the spin and lurking beneath, unmentioned, is the real agenda.
Control of the media is central, and ironically most easily achieved with a ‘free press’. If the news media were overtly government controlled more people would be naturally suspicious of what we are told.
The thing I find most frustrating is the ability of the Trumps and Rees Moggs of this world to make a case in such terms that it garners massive support from voters who will obtain no benefit whatsoever and are indeed no more than cannon fodder. I gather the Tories call us ‘sheeple’. says it all really doesn’t it ?
I have to grudgingly admit that it’s very clever.
Can you name any one power which is currently devolved which will initially come under Westminster control?
I’ve read the article and there don’t seem to be any.
You are well aware that these lists exist
I am not your search engine
I’m well aware that you are not a search engine, but you are a Professor of Practice in Political Economy and I would expect you to be able to give a student who is peckish for knowledge an example.
Again: Can you name any one power which is currently devolved which will initially come under Westminster control if the EU Withdrawal Bill is passed?
As a professor I set the papers
You provide the answers
Then I deliver a mark. And unlike many academics I am willing to fail people
Can you name one of those powers that are reserved? What is not reserved is devolved. The UK government probably wants to use fishing rights as a bargaining chip. The deal they are offering is taking the fish.
Here you go Rod, all 24 of them, took me about 20 seconds,
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/686991/20180307_FINAL__Frameworks_analysis_for_publication_on_9_March_2018.pdf
They’re near the bottom of the doc so you’ll have to scroll down quite a bit, but I’m sure you can manage it.
Unfortunately, you’ll have to repeat the Elementary Googling unit next semester – just joking!!
🙂
It’s also worth noting that the Secretary of State for Scotland, David Mundell, is on record as saying that it is quite possible that the government will increase the number of reserved powers it takes over, and extend the duration of the interim arrangement. Clearly, the will of the Scottish parliament on these matters will be of little or no consequence.
Astonishingly, according to the UK Government’s website, the primary job description of the SoS for Scotland is “to promote and protect the devolution settlement. Other responsibilities include promoting partnership between the UK government and the Scottish government, and relations between the 2 parliaments.”
In terms of Mundell’s performance, the course of the last few months would certainly make for an interesting performance review…
Have Holyrood ever legislated on these 24 items, which are EU law as far as I can see? If not, then they are not devolved powers?
If Scotland became independent within the EU, the SNP seems happy enough that these items would remain within the EU – as they are laws within the rest of the EU.
Are you not aware that powers are devolved, unless not? It does not mean that they have to have legislated them: it means only they can.
“…..a cross-party coalition in Scotland is doing so; the Tories being the exceptions, of course…..”
Elite hubris (and it extends beyond Tory ranks) inclines their thinking towards always having the whip hand. They so often don’t consider what a government of which they disapprove might do with the powers they are content to grant themselves.
As frequent revolutions around the world indicate throughout history, in some cases this extends to a matter of life and death.
http://thenational.scot/news/16227315.READ__Mike_Russell_s_incredible_speech_in_defence_of_Scotland_s_parliament/
It’s a sad reflection on current standards of political discourse that this speech earns the accolade ‘incredible’.
Perhaps “incredible” is a little exaggerated, but it was a speech in defence of democracy, emasculated though it is in the UK, in defence of the principle of devolution, of the will of the Scottish people that there should be a parliament in Scotland and that these things should not be obliterated by an ideological oligarchy in Westminster whose man in Scotland described the debate as “dancing on the head of a pin” and seems intellectually incapable of realising that he is conspiring in the demise of devolution. “It is in truth not for glory…..”
We could do with more of this at a UK level. As some of us have been saying on various fora “who will speak for the 48%?”
‘As a professor I set the papers
You provide the answers
Then I deliver a mark. And unlike many academics I am willing to fail people’
You’re just so full of yourself. It really is quite unbelievable. I pity the poor students who have to cope with your biased tripe. Failed because they don’t agree with your positions.
You clearly do not have a clue about academia, how I teach, or what my students think
“You clearly do not have a clue about academia, how I teach, or what my students think”
Probably a (nother American) professor. 🙂
Has everyone in Westminster really forgotten the important referendum result that precipitated all this?
The 1997 referendum of Scottish devolution was won with an astonishing 75% support rate. How’s that for the ‘will of the people’? Devolution is incredibly dear to Scots, it’s incredibly insulting to ignore this and ride roughshod over the Scotland Act
So,e of us have not forgotten
Hamish MacInnes says:
“Has everyone in Westminster really forgotten…The 1997 referendum of Scottish devolution …. ” I think they are probably trying to if they haven’t entirely managed it yet.
And, yes “… it’s incredibly insulting”
But the Indy movement is not going away, despite the constant media barrage of lies and misinformation and downright lack of ‘air time’.
Does anyone think that once these powers are ultimately returned to the Scottish Parliament they not be so constrained by legislation that the ScotGov will be unable to amend them to benefit Scotland?
Once welded into some ‘UK wide frameworks’ is there any way that Westminster would tolerate any change they might consider detrimental to these frameworks?
I believe that Holyrood will be devolved the powers of administration, not much else.
That is always the Westminster goal, always
Crush the policy – then blame the deliverer
“Crush the policy — then blame the deliverer.”
It’s not as if the Tories haven’t already done just that to all local government since Thatcher came to power, with the abolition if the highly effective GLC a prime example.
Nicholas Ridley, when he was Environment Secretary was of the opinion that Councillors should meet just once a year to assign outsourced contracts, and then go away again.
We’re not quite there yet (though my old Borough of Barnet nearly is, having outsourced great chunks of delivery to Capita), but Councils have effectively been reduced to tea boys, expected to obey orders from the Boss, but carry the can for any mistakes. And clearly the Tories want the Scottish Parliament to be, at best, a District Council, at worst a large Parish Council.
What would Jo “Mr Birmingham” Chamberlain have made of all this, I wonder? I’m sure he would long ago have resigned from the Tory Party, and set up an alternative focus of power. He certainly wouldn’t have let Birmingham sink to the level of a mere Government enforcer.
I have just met an MP, formerly a councillor, who was bemoaning the crushing of Local Authority intitiative over the past 40 years. They were right to do so.