The forthcoming local elections are the first where people might be asked to prove their entitlement to vote by having to offer proof of identity. That will usually be a driving licence or passport. The claim is that this will prevent electoral fraud. But no one believes there is a serious issue with electoral fraud at British polling stations, and there is no evidence of it. So that is not true.
What is true is that this will, like previous attempts to get mobile young people off the electoral roll, reduce the likely size of the non-Tory voting electorate.
As the evidence of the Windrush generation proves, some are deliberately denied these proofs of identity.
But there are ample people who do not drive in this country and do not want to. And whilst I doubt there's a Tory MP without a friend with a holiday home in France, many in this country do not holiday abroad, or need to travel for work. They dream instead of a holiday. And work.
There are others denied driving licences. That may be for physical or mental health reasons. Very often their disability will mean a passport is a luxury they can easily do without.
But now all these reasons for not having government approved photo ID come at a price and it is a pretty fundamental one: it is disenfranchisement.
Ninety years after we supposedly introduced the universal franchise government has introduced new bars to voting. They operate on the basis of age, race, income and health. And because of the way our society distributes income all of the barriers bias against those with lower incomes who are less likely to vote Tory.
That is not chance.
That is deliberate.
That is vote rigging.
This is not just anti-democratic, although it is that. It is corrupt.
And it is as pernicious the Tories' very obvious racism.
I never imagined I would live in a country this depraved. But I do.
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It would be more honest of you to mention that this is a pilot, overseen by the electoral commission, the purpose of which is precisely to see what effect it has on turnout.
You think the Electoral Commission did this in a parallel universe where there was no pressure on them to do so?
Come on…..
@Geral Tasker
Ha, ha,ha! Forgive me while I catch my breath from laughing. This is EXACTLY the sort of prime grade BS trotted out by the Republican Party – from whose handbook this pernicious piece of nonsense derives – whose gerrymandering of things allowed them to e.g. take control of Wisconsin Governorship and State Legislature, despite the fact that the Republicans polled fewer votes than the Democrats. And where the Republicans have polled more votes, far too often thay has been by naked “voter suppression” tactics, that have seen longtime voters knocked off the rolls because, eg they didn’t have a driving licence, even though they’d voted for years.
Wake up, chum, this is voter suppression in the offing, without a doubt.
Andrew Dickie is correct, this is standard Republican disenfranchisement stuff.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/06/09/vote-j09.html
followed by more gerrymandering ?
You are quite right…except that it is to see the effect it has on LABOUR turnout.
Nobody doubts that if it has a large effect it will be rapidly rolled-out over the entire country as fast as possible.
#tories
#gerrymandering_for_England by royal appt
“That will usually be a driving licence or passport. ”
Yes. Of course. Good Idea. ‘We’ all have a driving licence and a passport. How else would we be able to get to the wine growing regions and bring the bottles home ?
You are right this will help the Tory vote but surely you are going over the top with disenfranchisement.. admin hassle is part of everyday life for everyone regardless of age. Proof of identity is required as a matter of course for so many things. There are many things to complain about but this is way down the list.
So voting does not matter?
Pardon?
Are you serious?
Jason says:
” but surely you are going over the top with disenfranchisement.”
Not at all. That’s exactly what it is. And it’s carefully targetted as you observe.
“Way down the list…” ?
The mechanisms of democracy are way down the list ?
Way down somebody’s list certainly.
Having voted in every single election since the early seventies {except for police and crime commissioners} I will be disenfranchised by not having a passport, as I have no desire to go abroad , nor a photo ID driving licence. There is an adage; ‘no taxation without representation’ so, having paid taxes for nearly fifty years, why should I be denied my democratic right?
Why is there this need to be so prescriptive about the ID required when utility bills etc are seen, in other spheres, as providing sufficient proof of identity?
Admittedly this would increase the cost, but why not issue a PIN number separately as well as the voting card which is sent at each election?
Has not this idea, that the tories wish to introduce, been copied from the USA? What has been the result? I would suggest it is exactly as you have outlined.
Agreed
France, Germany, Holland, Norway and a number of other countries require ID to vote. Are they all vote rigging?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws.
No because they have wholly different approaches to proof of identity
Why not think things through before commenting?
J A Rank says:
“France, Germany, Holland, Norway and a number of other countries require ID to vote. Are they all vote rigging?”
Maybe. Maybe not, but this is the model being followed here:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/06/09/vote-j09.html
You really wouldn’t like Norway. In Norway democracy is very inclusive.
Straight out of the Republican playbook. When is the UK population going to wake up to acknowledging that the Conservatives are the UK’s very own Tea Party and whose racism should be the first item on every media platform for the next month. This racism has very real policy impacts and is infecting the whole of the UK.
Have you thought of endorsing the LibDems yet Richard? They dish out the odd peerage from time to time.
You must admit that one you were eyeing up a while back looks good on doe-eyed beauty Shami Chakrabarti.
Don’t you realise I did not want it and walked away?
Similar Voter Supression endemic in the US
voting system.
Postal Votes – that where the whole thing falls apart and certain parties hoover up papers from old folks homes and fill them in.
There have been instances where the PV return has been up to 96%, which stretches incredulity just a tad too far.
Then there’s the cases where people turn up to vote in person to be told their PV has already been recorded.
Or when parties know the outcome before the boxes are opened because they’ve seen the ‘sampling’ of the PV.
And where stands the Electoral Commission in all this? Ostrich-like.
Keith Roberts says:
“Postal Votes —….” Yes, let’s just totally ignore the one area that really is a mess and see if we can get the rest of the system compatibly screwed up.
“And where stands the Electoral Commission in all this? Ostrich-like.”
Have we got ANY governmental (ostensibly independent) regulatory bodies that actually do anything useful ?
On postal votes agree entirely. The trial is for the wrong problem.
And therefore very suspect motives.
http://www.progressivepulse.org/politics/voting-for-the-nasty-party
Electoral Commission’s data shows that only one conviction for impersonation was made in the whole of 2017!
Precisely
This is a non-issue
There were about ten cases of personation uncovered in the Scottish independence referendum, probably due to the very high turnout and people who had never bothered to vote before (and so been seen as safe candidates for fakery) decided to vote. It’s hard to get a conviciton if you’ve no lead on the person who voted, but the low number of cases even where it was discovered that someone’s vote had been used fraudulently indicates this is a non-issue.
Registration of nonexistent voters who then vote by post is probably a much bigger concern.
Agreed – so this is unnecessary
Meaning if people want to vote they will regardless of a bit of admin hassle – which we experience anyway on a day to day basis. So of course voting matters!
If you do not know how crass that comment is go and find out
Because it is an affront to all who do believe in democracy and the universal franchise without impediment being placed in the way – including significant cost to those who have very, very little to live on
Your callous indifference is staggering and does you no credit
Alas, there are now so many gross scandals, so many and such deep breaches of the trust fundamental to the operation of a truly democratic polity that even a mass media genuinely committed to investigative journmalism, or even just to fair reporting, would be overwhelmed. And we no longer have anythying remotely like that kind of mass media. The slide to something hideously unlike so-called ‘British values’ has, I fear, become almost unstoppable. This is jerrymandering and aimed with vicious precision.
Sadly Newham Councils elections and defrauding the councils assets was too extreme to ignore. 30 electoral votes in 2 bed flat. 28 not being known by the new owners. They had to make a new law to intervene
Oh come on…..
An example which had been already found
The thin end of the wedge, indeed. Having spent much of my working life in France, where pre-Schengen my “Carte Séjour” served as my ID, I have long wondered at the British antipathy to ID cards which are the norm across Europe. Surely an ID card for all citizens from the age of 16, as in other European countries, would solve this “problem” as it would have solved the problem faced by the ‘Windrush’ generation? Of course, this would have had the opposite effect to that which the current government (and Tory party) desires.
I admit I have never seen the problem with an identity card
I suspect the mood would be different now from when it was last tried
BUT, it would just have to be an identity card, not a passport to rights and sanctions or a data carrier to personal detriment
They’d send the contract to an EU country, like passports.
For a LOT less they could just give passports to everyone free..and renewals.
But, of course, ID cards will be the route…then you’d have to have them read every time you wanted anything/everything….they’d even replace store loyalty cards!!
“I admit I have never seen the problem with an identity card”
In a country where you can have two NI numbers an identity card is going to be problematic I suggest.
I can live with two
I am joking….
As you say Richard proof of ID in voting is not an issue in this country and there is currently an acceptable method for registering people who wish vote. When faced with changes to anything which have no necessity look for those who are likely to benefit from the change. This is those willing to support the status quo and exclude those likely to vote against. It is hard enough to get those who feel the system is rigged against them to vote anyway and this is further evidence that the system is very definitely and quite literally rigged against them.
As usual, it’s just the Tories ripping off the poor-and-minority disenfranchisement tactics of the American Republican scum they so doggedly copy and worship and want to be:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/06/09/vote-j09.html
I work with people who are disabled and often they have neither or these documents. How will they prove who they are? I feel an OD card scheme coming on at the cost of £98 each.
It is my belief that ID cards would have to be free
“It is my belief that ID cards would have to be free”
You’d have to join the Tory party to get one for free.
Why don’t they just ask for your national insurance number?
Because there are too many duplicates
Anf shhhhh….we give them to immigrants
“Because there are too many duplicates”
Really ? HTF do they produce duplicates. Wouldn’t they have the same numbers on them and be easy to spot ?
One person can have more than one number
Yes, you might ask how…..
It’s the last line of your blog that is so true – and so depressing. Scotland and Ireland both beginning to look tempting. Where is this perniciousness being deliberately orchestrated ?
Yes Richard, voter suppression is just one type of voter fraud that can occur. How secure is the system of ballot box security? For example, can fake boxes be inserted into the count and genuine ones removed? Who checks that only and all the authorized boxes are included and that none go missing? Do we have full trace-ability with the ability to back flush, in other words is a full audit, or could a full audit be conducted. Perhaps someone with practical experience or from the Electoral Commission can set my mind at rest.
Prior to the 1832 Reform Act only 440,000 land owning people from the gentry were allowed the vote.
MP’ were unpaid so they always had independent means, most of the UK had little or no representation where as the south was over represented and there was no universal suffrage. I’m sure many in the Tory Party would like to see a return to the world before 1832, they seem to be edging towards it.
‘dream of a holiday’
The UK is so lovely there are plenty of places to go without having to travel abroad.
You also havent mentioned the airports who dont help disabled people. Look at the issues of the BBC reporter and flying, to see how difficult some people find it.
But the point of the article is there has been fraud in elections in the UK and something needs to be done about it.
Sorry – but what is the evidence there has been fraud that this will tackle?
I emailed the Electoral commission about this issue, as I couldn’t believe that it was even legal. This was the reply I got
Thank you for your email to the Electoral Commission.
In January 2014, following our own review of electoral fraud vulnerabilities, we recommended that electors should be required to show photographic proof of their identity before they can be issued with a ballot paper at polling stations for elections and referendums in Great Britain, as they are already in Northern Ireland and many other countries. We recommended that the scheme should be based on existing forms of secure photographic proof of identity, including passports, photographic driving licenses and certain public transport passes, for example. We also said that the scheme should allow voters who do not hold any of the existing forms of identity to apply for a “Voter Card” which would be issued free of charge to any elector.
The Cabinet Office have announced that they will be undertaking Voter ID pilots due to take place at the May 2018 local elections. Woking, Gosport, Bromley, Watford and Swindon have all volunteered to take part. Tower Hamlets will also run a separate postal voting pilot, looking at the security of postal votes and providing additional guidance in postal vote packs. The pilots in different areas will trial different forms of ID, including photo and non-photo ID.
The required form of identification will be set by the councils and will differ in each area. The pilots will involve trialling both photo ID and non-photo ID to see what is most effective and efficient. If voters do not have the required identification then local authorities are providing alternative or replacement methods for voters to identify themselves at the polling station.
The Electoral Commission is independent of Government. We are not responsible for running these pilot schemes, as they are being run by the Cabinet Office and the local authorities. We will however be responsible for carrying out an independent, statutory evaluation of the pilot schemes and we will publish our findings following the May elections, in the summer of 2018.
We will review the pilot scheme carefully, particularly to ensure that there is a realistic prospect of achieving robust evaluation findings which would be needed to inform any future legislation required for the implementation of a scheme across Great Britain.
If you would like more information regarding the Government’s pilot you should contact Cabinet Office. Please see contact details below:
Correspondence Team
70 Whitehall
London
SW1A 2AS
Email: publiccorrespondence@cabinetoffice.gov.uk
Tel: 020 7276 1234
Kind regards
Freya Flavin
Public Information Officer
The Electoral Commission
3 Bunhill Row
London EC1Y 8YZ
Tel: 020 7271 0696
http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk
Press office: 020 7271 0704
Out of office hours: 07789 920 414
You can now register to vote o
Your question:
Can you please tell me if it is legal to prevent people, who are eligible to vote, from voting? I am specifically thinking about the government’s plans to prevent people from voting if they don’t have photo ID. This means that if someone doesn’t drive, or can’t afford a passport, they can’t vote. Is it actually legal to do that without putting in place options for obtaining the required ID for the many people who can’t afford the above options? Are the electoral commission taking any steps to ensure that people are able to obtain necessary ID, or alternative options for those that aren’t able?
Thank you
Well done Julie Knights,
I’m not keen on the whole idea, but the line in the Electoral Commission reply to you which I found quite unacceptable is :
“The required form of identification will be set by the councils and will differ in each area.”
Only a matter of time before a council decides the only acceptable form of ID is a (Tory) party membership card. !!
Those unnecessarily worried by articles like this should visit the Bromley Council web site, which explains the ID requirements. You will NOT require photo ID, and one of the possible documents is your Poll Card!
http://www.bromley.gov.uk/info/200033/elections_and_voting/1177/voter_id_pilot
They are not in the trial
That’s why
Well they think they are.
There’s a lot of detail on that page which answers some of the points about documentation.
(don’t expect you to post this)
It is not on the lists I have seen
“Pilots will be held in local elections in Woking, Gosport, Bromley, Watford and Slough in May 2018, with photo and non-photo forms of identification being trialled in different areas to see which is most effective and efficient”
Richard, just admit you got it wrong!
“We are taking part in a pilot scheme, run by the Cabinet Office, that will mean voters within the borough will need to show ID before they can vote next May.
Joining Bromley are Gosport, Swindon, Watford and Woking who have also volunteered to take part in the trial and it is likely to be the first in a series of pilots to allow the Electoral Commission and Cabinet Office to evaluate the impact of asking for ID before a decision is taken on whether or not to roll it out nationally.”
There are photos on the web of posters erected by Bromley telling people how it works. I don’t think they would bother doing that if they weren’t involved!
OK
I have that part wrong: Bromley is in the scheme
And I made clear that people ‘might’ be asked for photo ID in the original
So I got a borough wrong
But that’s it
Big deal compared with the real issue, which you ignore, of course
https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/latest-news-and-research/media-centre/press-releases/latest-electoral-fraud-figures-make-voter-id-trials-unnecessary-and-over-bearing/
Precisely
Glad I am in good company
I am too concerned at many actions this government has done to ensure their control. This one would render my dad unable to vote. Having had an accident, he no longer has a driving licence. He has let his passport lapse as he is not secure abroad. I was concerned at their actions previously requiring voter registration in the knowledge that the younger generation would not automatically transfer to the new register. Then they have been playing with the electoral boundaries. They are in hock to our press barons who ensure a positive review of their actions and concentrate their criticism on labour. They are in hock to their donors who openly buy policy in their favour often to the tune of millions. They take cash from Russian Oligarchs, tax avoiders and the finance industry. They would have it that only one message gets through as they now control what is output on the BBC News. Yet they still want to manipulate our voting system in their favour to guarantee their survival and the continued transfer of wealth upwards to their employers (their donors). I do see this behaviour as corrupt.