A regular reader of this blog wrote to me after I wrote about the abandonment of rail electrification to Swansea, saying:
I am an electrical engineer with 30 years experience of working in the railway industry both in Britain and abroad. The purpose of this email is to confirm the support of many people within my sector for the cancellation of any further electrification projects.
The reason for this is simple: new technology is now available which makes traditional overhead gantry power supply obsolete. Battery storage has reached the breakthrough point and is being deployed on new Hull Trains services; in the USA as well as the Middle East and India remarkable work is being done to introduce the Hyperloop transport system promoted by Elan Musk which will make both traditional rail and short haul air travel redundant. HS2 is known across my industry as the High Speed Gravy Train for good reason.
It was a mistake to authorise the electrification of the Great Western line to Bristol from Paddington but nothing can be done about that now - unfortunately. At least the taxpayer is not being told to pay for yet more unnecessary expenditure.
I had not heard this argument before. Chris Grayling most certainly did not refer to it. If it's true it's a fascinating development. Any comment would be of interest. It changes the perspective of the future of public transport if it is, and the Green New Deal come to that. And yes, I am a bit of a railway buff on the side. I can deal with all the comments that will follow from that admission.
Thanks for reading this post.
You can share this post on social media of your choice by clicking these icons:
You can subscribe to this blog's daily email here.
And if you would like to support this blog you can, here:
I am not sure about that line. I know Japan is investing significantly in new types of trains.
I’m not convinced that battery technology for high-ish speed trains is yet widely enough available.
It has undoubtedly come on leaps and bounds in the last three or four years. At a domestic level you might want to look at Tesla’s Powerwall and the Moixa Maslow. Equally there’s talk of Tesla building a large-scale battery plant in south Australia (see https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/jul/07/tesla-to-build-worlds-biggest-lithium-ion-battery-in-south-australia).
But the Maslow is not a solution that could take a house off the grid yet, the Powerwall is still a big investment (installing one costs around $10k), and the battery plant would store electricity and feed it back into the supply – so the overhead wiring would still be needed.
Meanwhile Grayling appears quite hapy to commit large expenditure, so long as it’s only spent on London (Crossrail 2). Plus ca change…
This is a difficult issue. Your correspondent is probably correct as far as the future is concerned but I’m not as sanguine as he is about the current state of battery technology right now. This is unfortunate as I think the development of energy storage technology is of huge importance. If we aren’t yet at the stage when we can power medium to long distance trains by battery then you have to make a judgment as to whether it is worth waiting for the technology to arrive. I don’t know enough to be make that call myself. I have read some fairly excited claims by engineers of recent major breakthroughs but I don’t think myself that the technology is as yet economically viable (as opposed to being feasible in engineering terms). That is, it could well use up too much resources that could be applied to other purposes to make it worthwhile. I could be wrong though.
Interesting stuff indeed. Could the “electrical engineer with 30 years experience” post some links to the new technology.
Sounding a bit sceptical David? Me too.
Hard to find helpful links re battery-powered trains, and adding Hull to the search didn’t seem to help – but see http://vivarail.co.uk/robert-llewellyn-fully-charged-filming-battery-train-today/.
I don’t see much evidence there of what a Vivarail battery-powered train can do, but they certainly have lots of interesting ideas – have a look at their website.
Sorry I didnt mean to come across as sceptical. Never heard of battery trains before
and just interested in the technology.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_electric_multiple_unit
http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/independently-powered-electric-multiple-unit-ipemu-essex/
Never forgetting diesel-electric, which combines diesel generator with electric propulsion…allowing the diesel to run in a high-efficiency-low-pollution mode
Lot of power needed…1.6MW for an average diesel-electric.
As I understand battery technology we are close to this break through but do not understand the science fully as yet [1] and which, of the many competing, technologies will provide the breakthroughs. Weight is always a factor and lithium ion has come a long way, lithium air is even lighter and might be the way forward but who knows. Large investments are needed but should not halt current electrification which will be a progressive process as most technological advances are.
My own tuppence worth:
i. Build much light trains maybe out of modern composites, abandon massive/heavy undercarriages and use active suspension as developed for formula 1 as a stable but lightweight base for passenger cabins.
ii. Adopt advanced battery and super-capacitor technology, but consider electrification at stations for recharging, whilst trains stop, and for the power to accelerate the train to speed over the first half mile or so; electric trains accelerate quickly.
[1] http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/new-design-points-a-path-to-the-ultimate-battery
Believe it or not…but rail carriages are constructed to save weight.
What you need to consider….is that the carriage chassis’ have to bear the load of the carriages to their rear…especially when braking.
They also have to carry the load of the drivetrain…the drive motors are not light…their torque is high, so adequate restraint is needed.
Not much to save on wheels and axles…
The overhead lines carry the energy at 25 KV, so I quite like a fair bit of separation between me and it!
Reader has listed battery technology (as supposed option compatible with current infrastructure) and hyperloop (prototype stage at best and would require completely new infrastructure) in the same sentence! Which would make me a bit sceptical about the battery claim without seeing more information.
Possibly something to do with what is spoken about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCJWhZ_yMjg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egLXGnCLFJI
For people who are able to get HNK World news on freesat etc. https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/tv/japanrailway/ Has excellent programs about how Japan is developing its railways.
Also,
http://www.railway-technology.com/features/featurehydrogen-fuel-cells-vs-batteries-how-to-power-the-trains-of-tomorrow-5692017/
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/tv/japanrailway/201608310600/
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/asia/jr-kyushu-battery-emu-to-enter-service-in-october.html
Possible links
Speaking too as a ‘rail fan’ and someone concerned about the environment I’d need to be heartily convinced about this technology before renouncing overhead catenary.
What is battery performance on motive power like for heavy freight for example?
What is the environmental cost of making such batteries? Batteries require some increasingly rare materials in order to be made.
My other worry is that the UK has wasted a lot of time not electrifying its system and becoming more reliant on diesel when we realise that 2050 is when affordable oil stocks may well be in terminal decline (if not already). This announcement is yet again some sort of weak justification for kicking the can down the road in a way that is so typically ‘British’.
I think the case is made that a lot of us are not convinced by my correspondent’s argument, as yet.
I would like it to be true
I am not sure
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/551880/Network-Rail-launches-first-battery-run-passenger-train-in-50-years
Probably not Duracell….