It takes an extraordinary ability, which few would aspire to have, to upset almost all in the world of politics and business simultaneously. Trump seems to have it. His comments post Charlottesville have been so unacceptable to the political, business and journalist communities by offering such obvious excuses to the fascists who came to demonstrate in support of thier corrosively divisive, separatist, racist and anti-democratic causes that his apparent support is draining away.
I would, however, urge a little caution before thinking that does for Trump and populism. Remember he was elected to 'drain the swamp'. Don't doubt hat sometime soon he will claim that's what he's been doing. He will say he has rid Washington of the purveyors of political correctness; of the business executives who so abuse the consumer they've got time on their hands to play politics and of the purveyors of fake news. What other line has he now got available to him?
And some of those who voted for him will lap it up because they'll say he is delivering for them. Don't doubt that abhorrent as his actions are they will appeal to some. It's easy to think Trump is running out of road. But he'll just say that the only road he's running out of is the one that the do-gooding Establushment built. And that will make him more dangerous and divisive still.
This is not over yet. Not by a long way.
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At least at the moment the larger part of finance and business seems to not support the fascists. But will that hold? In a recent piece you highlighted that neoliberalism is essentially anti-democratic. So is fascism. What are the chances that neoliberalists will support fascists? I believe it has happened in the past, see eg Pinochet. On the other hand, some of the core ideas of neoliberalism seem to be diametrically opposed to what makes fascism (eg `no society’ vs `das Volk’).
Any thoughts about this?
I agree totally. It’s very misleading to interpret both his actions and the American psyche through a European lens. I have several charming American friends, commercially successful & well-educated, who voted for him, believing him to be the antidote to what they see as the corrupt Washington Establishment and Liberal élite, which are loathed by large sections of the business community as well as ‘dispossessed’ whites of Middle America. Both ‘Draining the Swamp’ and ‘Make America Great Again’ were inspired slogans.
However, the proof of the pudding ….. he’s not yet delivered on any of his key policies, although it seems he’ll get his so-called ‘Tax Reforms’ through. Providing none of the plots to oust him are successful, I reckon he’ll serve his full term. And this would give a progressive opposition the time it needs to build a potentially winning support base. Sometimes it really does have to get worse before it can become better. But what do I know?
The Democrats have a long way to go to be credible
To be blunt, they are undeniably in the swamp
I believe the Republican party will continue to stand by Trump for next two years until he has served his purpose and his purpose is to sign any bill which the Republican party place before him, like the destruction of all Social programs, Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Public Education, EPA and of course cutting taxes for rich and then will they allow Trump to impeached.
I think that that what we are seeing here is another iteration of neo-liberalism folks.
The cue is the tax proposals?
Basically the whole idea is to look chaotic and play to a baying crowd so that everyone is distracted whilst more dollars are enabled to flow into the pockets of the already rich. Including the President himself.
Trump’s rule is a pantomime – a deadly serious and self serving one.
In the UK Cameron used socialist/left rhetoric (‘We’re all in this together’ and ‘hard working families’) as flags of convenience for his regressive ideas on austerity.
Neo-libs are in their own way very clever – just like the German fascists were with their propaganda used to justify themselves. So there is a link in my view.
‘He will say he has rid Washington of the purveyors of political correctness; of the business executives who so abuse the consumer they’ve got time on their hands to play politics and of the purveyors of fake news. What other line has he now got available to him?
And some of those who voted for him will lap it up because they’ll say he is delivering for them.’
Judging by my experience with local Jeremy Corbyn supporters they will behave exactly the same.
And as for trump remarks, arugeably the media totally and utterly ignores when their favorite politicians say things equally bad. For example all the times whey said the ‘military option’ is not off the table regarding iran use to be casually reported as no big deal.
I cannot see the link
Sorry
I am just saying the merely jumping up and down saying how bad his remarks are, are being hypocritical given they ignore remarks equally bad from politicians let alone make it a top story. For example when mrs clinton said we came we saw he died followed by laughter. Or obama was quoted as saying he was really good at k*lling people apparently(he said it was allegedly bad people admittedly but you just don’t say that kind of thing in my view.
The link as I see it is not in the philosophy (after all, von Hayek’s neo-lib prejudice against ‘statism’ was based on what he saw the Nazi state do) but in method.
But in both cases it could be argued that both the Nazi’s, Trump and the wider Neo-libs including the UK Tories are using the same methods to control what Gillian Tett calls the ‘cognitive map’ of these issues in society.
They are abusing language and using the language of higher ideals to cloak their malevolent intentions. Lying in other words.
Agreed
You’re absolutely right, but I’d be especially worried were I a citizen of Syria, Venezuela, Iran, or Korea (North or South) if Trump really gets into trouble.
Trump has already learned the best way to look ‘Presidential’ is with a batch of Cruise missiles. His approval ratings were never so high as when he reacted to the alleged Syrian chemical weapons attack in April with a hundred million dollars worth of munitions.
It worked for the impeached Bill Clinton, and it will work for Trump too.
Worryingly true
It is remarkable that many in the political establishments of the west rightly chastise Trump for his cosying up to the neo-Nazis in the USA are at the same time enthusiastic supporters of those same elements in the Ukraine. It was with the aid of such militias that the rape of democracy (such as it was),was engineered in that republic. Victoria Newland boasted that the USA spent $5b bringing about that coup. Expenditure that no doubt included the deployment of those private contractors who shot at and killed protestors and police alike and the training and deployment of those far-right thugs to stir up civil unrest. The first acts of that illegally constituted government were the rehabilitation and celebration of those Nazis collaborators responsible for war crimes that included massacres of the polish minority and the rounding up of the local Jewish population for deportations to the death camps. From a Russian perspective, it appears the prime reason for the Ukrainian coup was to provoke conflict on Russia’s western borders. It seems that as in other theatres our condemnation of tyranny is very selective. It is OK to support the forces of fascism where that support is seen to advance western geo-political objectives and where it can be hidden behind a wall of propaganda. Where that is not possible the lip service that is paid when condemning Trump can also expose hypocrisy.
John, from what I read, there is a lot in what you say about Ukraine. And we are very selective in those whom we condemn. However, the wartime atrocities in Ukraine were preceded by the famine of the early 1930s which killed millions. The main cause was the Soviet policies. When Hitler invaded, he found a lot of support from those who had good reason to hate the Russians (although many of them suffered too). It in no way excuses the neo-Nazi beliefs but it may remind us that things occur in a context and while we rightly condemn the actions and beliefs, we have to remember that people get caught up in events not of their choosing.
I watch Fox News occasionally, just to get a hit on what the ‘other side’ is thinking and discussing. I haven’t caught Hannity lately (I can only watch him for five minutes anyway), but watching The Five (with the single token liberal on it) has been instructive in how far they are prepared to go to back their guy – the Donald.
The apologist excuses, on The Five this morning, bashing the point on Charlottesville ‘that alt-right and alt-left’ were equally violent (at least the liberal managed to point out that the young woman who died clearly did not go with any violent intent, unlike all of the alt-rights) and that Trump ‘has to be given some room because he’s not a politician’ goes to your point Richard about how they will frame this in terms of ‘draining the swamp’ and in a wider context about being able to maintain a wider support through this alt-right news channel and the other right-wing papers, blogs and radio shows. The fact that they were not squirming ENOUGH on The Five this morning shows how far they are prepared for Trump to go and makes you wonder what he would actually have to do to lose their support.
Soberingly, the BBC is reporting that 48% of Trump voters think the race warriors in Charlottesville “have a point” (37%) or were “mostly right” (11%), and 68% think there is “a lot of discrimination” against white people in the US. Against white people. Seriously :-/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40952797
I’m a bit more optimistic than most commentators… I think it’s highly unlikely Trump will win re-election in 2020.
Results in special elections (the US equivalent of our by-elections) in congressional districts show a swing of between 6 and 12% to the Democrats in Republican-held seats. That wasn’t enough to actually flip any seats in the House of Representatives from Republican to Democrat because all the elections were in very safe Republican seats. But a swing of between 6 and 12% against Trump in the 2020 election would almost certainly mean the Democrats won the electoral college for the presidency. Trump was 3 percentage points behind in the electoral college last year but won narrowly because his vote was better distributed across the states. However, if he’s 15 points behind (as he would be with a 6 percent swing) or 27 points behind (as he would be with a 12 percent swing) there’s no way he can win – the maths just doesn’t stack up, even if he does relatively well in the “rust belt”. So I think he’s finished. The Democrats need to focus very much on winning extra seats in the Senate in 2018 so that they get a majority there, and (if possible) the House of Representatives – although that’s harder because the House is ridiculously gerrymandered.
Could someone post a link to Trump saying there was moral equivalence between the alt-right and the left? All I can find are posts of him saying there was violence on both sides.
All over the Guardian and other news sites
Hi Richard
You are old, overweight, stupid, vain, pompous, arrogant, unpleasant, thin skinned, hypocritical and ugly.
Do let me know if I missed anything out.
I’ll share in case others want to add some more
In my defence, at least I am not a troll, and you very clearly are
Your IP address is now blocked as a result
I DO hope Jan Smith can still at least READ this Blog, for I have to say I have never seen a more perfect example of kindergarten “yah, boo sucks!” commentary. Must have gone to kindergarten with President Trump, the well-known 4-year old in the Oval Office.
Richard – I suspect that you filter out most of the nastiness but it’s worth letting us see the odd message to remind us what you have to put up with.
Meanwhile, thanks for the filtering
I admit I use software to block persistent trolls
Most get a go but once they reveal their true hand I can’t waste my life on them