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Venn diagrams for our times: Ordained bank chairmen
Richard Murphy
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Nicely put. I sincerely hope that the people in charge of Labour’s election strategy are putting resources into creating the same kind of “dig the dirt and shit sticks” approach that they can use against the Tories. If not they’re going to be on the back foot from here to the election. I’m sure there’s plenty of dirt floating about, given that the use of recreational drugs is allegedly relatively widespread in certain circles.
I don’t like dirt – we all have some (yes, me included, I’m sure) but Labour can’t be naive on this issue
And they also dish it – e.g. to the Greens
I agree, Richard, and as I indicated in a earlier comment elsewhere, I’m not at all happy at this latest example of a race to the bottom in public life. But as Ken Livingstone discovered to his cost – and thus as the Crosby’s of this world know only too well – if they can get a bit of dirt to stick they can then rely on The Sun, Mail, etc, to carry on digging and regurgitating as and when necessary. As much as I’d like to say, ‘turn the other cheek’, it simply won’t work.
By the way, in terms of ‘own goals’ the images that have appeared across the twittersphere of possible new Tory party logos now Cameron has dumped the last semblance of his greenness are gems.
I had better go and look
Ivan, surely the immediate target for Labour has to be Schapps. Having very rapidly liquidated the Michael Green enterprises after the police announced that they did not believe that a fraud case should be pursued, it seems more than a bit rich for this deeply irritating man – who could hardly hold himself out to be a paragon of honesty – to be demanding investigations into Flowers/Coop Bank.
If only I had suggested this to Steve Bell a few days ago. His “If” strip in the Guardian has been running a truly offensive (in whatever way you choose to apply that word) and very funny thread for the last couple of weeks, particularly the first few days from which his first target, Ian “Nosferatu” Duncan-Smith, did not come out at all well.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cartoon/2013/nov/04/steve-bell-if-iain-duncan-smith-work-poundland
Thanks for alerting me to Steve Bell’s most recent thread of cartoons, Nick. I’d not been following them for a while, but they are too good to miss – and oh, so accurate!
Schapps: I agree. As I noted in a comment elsewhere a couple of days ago, given he’s such an authority on business ethics (not) you’d think he’d keep well clear of pots calling kettles. But as I’m sure you’ve noticed, one of the key characteristics of this bunch of Tories is that they have no shame. Add to that a willingness – or should that be, natural inclination – to be “economical with the truth” which makes Tony Blair look like the saint he always thought he was, and we have a particularly toxic group of neoliberal politicians.
Very funny, if surreal.
All parts of HSBC that are also parts of the Co-op bank ARE ordained ministers. Ha ha ha ha!
These things are meant to be extractions from reality
Not to be taken absolutely literally
Really?
In that case, I don’t get it.
Is it that HSBC owns part of Co-op (or vice-versa)? And Paul Flowers was related to that in some way?
In which case, why isn’t the inquiry covering that bit too?
I don’t get what bit of reality you have extracted here.
This is like a joke
If you don’t get it explaining it won’t help
I see, it’s like observational humour.
So HSBC owns the part of the Co-op bank chaired by a minister and that is a bit of the bank not subject to an enquiry which arises from Lynton Crosby’s policy agenda. Given this topical stuff about Paul Flowers, you’re suggesting that they’re in cahoots somehow, yes?
Are you implying Lynton Crosby does coke with Paul Flowers? I sometimes don’t get subtle jokes.
This is not literally a Venn diagram – it is a representation of ideas
It won’t work for everyone
It does for some
That’s fine
That’s a bit cryptic. The title says it is a Venn diagram.
Is this some sort of satirical criticism of “our times”?
I understand it Mitch. In fact, I was able to grasp it within seconds – that’s the beauty of Venn diagrams – the ability to convey a message clearly! A picture is worth …..
I’m not sure how failed to notice how area of intersection D does not even touch the circumference of circle A let alone overlap the area of intersection B 😉
So the enquiry into the Co-op bank does not extend to include its ordained chair. Now I’m even more confused.
Mitch
You are being literal
The Venn diagrams I draw are not literal
I’m really sorry they don’t work for you
They’re meant to cause a moment’s smile and then leave people to move on
If they don’t – just forget them
Best
Richard
I’m not being literal, I’m just trying to interpret the diagram.
The post is about ordained chairs. Hence B is the important area. And this post tells me that the ordained chair of the Co-op is not the subject of an inquiry. And definitely not the subject of an inquiry that is the result of Lynton Crosby’s policy agenda.
Are Lynton Crosby and Paul Flowers drug buddies? That’s all I’m asking.
I’m saying you’re seeking to read far too much into it
But isn’t Paul Flowers being investigated?
Is this diagram wrong or is it meant to be funny by being sarcastic?
The latter
Is the whole Venn diagram sarcastic or just that bit?
They are meant to be commentary as a whole
Consider them to be cartoons
So what is the point of this diagram? If you could tell me without any sarcasm, that would be very helpful.
I am saying two banks shared an unusual feature in common – and ordained chair
Both got into serious trouble
One only will be subject to investigation
I am suggesting that decision may be politically motivated by a new type of dirty campaigning
What? So why would Lynton Crosby not want to investigate Paul Flowers then?
Mitch
Try reading this http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/21/co-op-bank-politics-ed-miliband
I think this correspondence is then closed
I still don’t get how you get from that article to this diagram. Your diagram seems to be saying the exact opposite to me.
But then I don’t really get sarcasm.
Thanks for the link anyway.
Emphasis on the dark arts associated with item “E”.
These diagrams should be a daily staple in the press!
RMs Venn diagram sketches capture “logical” relationships between complex objects (people/organisations etc), making an argument in a fun way, perhaps memorable. A mathematician knows Venn diagrams refer to logical relations between a collection of “sets” – a “set” is a collection of distinct objects [not strange old men or complex organisations or opinions].
RMs diagrams may well be incomplete for such complex sets, in all possible [logical] relations that hold, for example E may likely intersect A. In that case we need to find the missing set (circle F) or relationship ☺
They are incomplete!
I make no apology for the fact they are caricature
John Venn would not be pleased
Hence Venn diagrams for our times – and not strictly Venn diagrams at all in some / many cases
I’m really not sure what part of my post failed your moderation tests. I wasn’t rude and I was trying to be helpful and to some extent help Mitch understand the point I assume you are trying to put across.