I visited my father, who has been unwell, today and returned to moderate 21 comments on this blog.
I have rarely deleted so many - and apart from one gratuitously neoliberal / neocon comment from a person who is invariably deleted anyway have commented why in each case.
Might I remind those commenting though of some basic rules, all already in the comments policy? First, do not be gratuitously offensive, especially to other commentators.
Second, being offensive about anyone with left of centre views is a sure way to be deleted unless backed by argument - and that seemed beyond several commentators today.
Third, as I know (and acknowledge I have not always got right) issues like mental ill health need handling with care.
Fourth, calling me a communist because you claim to be a Guernsey politician (which claim is, I hope, bogus for the sake of Guernsey) is not a way to prove your credibility.
So please note the comments policy because I will not always be so generous in noting reasons for rejecting comments. I will just delete them and reserve this space for those who can debate rather more maturely.
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Hope he’s well now, Richard.
As is, I know, often said, it’s hard for our generation as we care for both our children & our parents.
He’s 85 and had a stroke and a broken ankle this year. Thidps time it was just a virus knocked him out over Christmas – but we had a good time together yesterday and he’s got plenty of fight in him yet
For which I am grateful!
What on Earth did you say to warrant being called a communist? Did you perhaps suggest that basing an entire island economy on tax evasion/avoidance was perhaps not a good thing. 😉
Richard,
Politicus aside, all the best to your father.
Georges
Richard, prayers and best wishes for your father’s health – I remember you talking about him when you came to the Norwich Occupy site – and am so glad that he has still got plenty of fight in him.
And thanks for all you have done, and do, in the cause of justice via this Blog, and justice and graciousness, via your moderation of the content and quality of this site.
Blessing for 2012.
Andrew
Richard – just read back what I had written – last sentence meant to read: “and judgement and graciousness” – since good judgement is one of the qualities you, and your readers, prize greatly.
Richard
I am not trying to prove my credibility to anyone, people are free to check on my status. I merely point out to you that you are wrong and that your constant attacks on Guernsey, Jersey and the IOM are born in the main out of envy and resentment that we are so much more successful than your country. We set our tax rates to suit our economy not yours and we do not need to fund billions in debt which helps enormously. Your censorship of all things that you disagree with on the grounds of being “gratuitously offensive” does you no credit as the comments appear on other blogs with people at a loss to see where they are offensive.
Dave Jones Guernsey
Might I point out you are not a country?
It’s a pretty massive error to claim you are on your part
I’ve just read Dave Jones’ last post and at no point does he claim that Guernsey is a country! He simply states that “we are so much more successful than your country”. I have no idea where you got that from.
I would love to see you debate with Dave Jones your claim that Guernsey’s status is “no different from that of an English county council”.
The point is clear: he was comparing Guernsey with a country.
But if it isn’t then I’m happy: that’s the pint I was making.
And that also confirms the point I am making: when london says jump, it jumps, just like a county council
I fear Richard will never understand our constitutional position with the UK simply because it doesn’t suit his argument, the fact of the matter is that we have our own elected parliaments, our own government departments, we make our own laws, we have our own courts, we deal with the world on our own terms in financial matters and other trade and we have no wish whatsoever to join the EU. We generate our own income and set our own tax rates, we ask the UK for nothing. Every service we buy in from the UK or France in terms of health care or other services we pay for at very high rates. We now train all our own police officers and fire personal on island jointly with Jersey. We control our own boarders unlike the UK that seems to have an open door policy and we are drafting new legislation which will require anyone applying to live in Guernsey to have a criminal record check. None of this has anything to do with London and at times when they have tried to interfere in our affairs, they have received very short shrift. If you don’t think that is true, name anything that has been imposed on us by London? Give us the list of things we have done to please the UK?
EU Code of Conduct on Tax
FATF regulation
IMF inspections
European Union Savings Tax Directive
And on, and on, and on
You can sweat the small stuff. Police, fire and housing are what councils do.
It’s the big stuff that matters
Richard
That’s really interesting.
I don’t recall the Crown Dependencies refusing to go along with any of those external requests. Far from it. The IMF and FATF reviews were highly desirable because we correctly anticipated positive outcomes which would reinforce how well-regulated we are.
As for the EU Code of Conduct and EUSD, sure there was some initial reaction of “we aren’t part of the EU so why should we?”, but the general consensus after discussion with the UK was that we should go along with it.
What would have happened if we had refused? We shall never know as it wasn’t tested.
You may well conclude that we had no choice, and you may refuse to believe that we would have dared to say no, but it is disingenuous at the very least to say that we did it because we had no choice. We always have a choice.
If course, neither the UK nor the EU treats us like a “county council”. They are only too aware of our status.
Now Richard you really are clutching at straws, let’s start with the IMF inspections, these inspections are carried out in order that we can be registered as a well regulated offshore international finance centre, we work in a global market and an IMF badge of approval is a must have in our business, incidentally we passed with flying colours and that initiative certainly didn’t come from London. They also carry out inspections in Switzerland and many other jurisdictions for the same reason. As for the FATF regulations, we were very eager to sign up to these, we do not want to be associated with money laundering or funds emanating from the proceeds of crime and we work very closely with law enforcement agencies all over the world on these issues, in fact only a few years ago we were given a million dollars by the US treasury for helping in tracking down the huge proceeds of a south American drug cartel. The EU code of conduct on tax is again abiding by the rules of their club they (the EU) have said that this is our club and if you want to trade with it then you have to abide by our rules, they change the rules periodically but I suppose that is their prerogative, one day the club will implode on itself and I have no doubt at that time that there will be different rules again, we will see. Yet again that directive came from Brussels not from London. The EU savings directive came about by agreeing on having a level playing field, all our competitors agreed it in one form or another, including Switzerland, Andorra, Liechtenstein, Monaco and San Marino: we in Guernsey opted for a withholding tax which actually produced very little in revenue as we maintained would be the case at the time. We are more than happy to cooperate with international standards, we have also seen lots of entrepreneurs and wealth creators leave the UK and other EU countries and come to these islands, we welcome them with open arms, they have created thousands of jobs here and have been a real boost to our economy. If only the UK government recognised their worth, what a different country the UK might be. Finally Richard, if you don’t think that having independant governments and setting our own unique tax rates and having our own individual laws and legislation is different from a local council in the UK then I fear I will never be able to explain it to you. Nevertheless it is always good to debate these matters.
Deputy David Jones
Housing Minister
Guernsey.
I make no further comment on the above – it’s propaganda
You’ve based your economy on a finance sector that brought the world economy to its knees – that’s the reality
And it was brought to its knees by asymmetric information that you went out of your way to facilitate
I need say no more, bar the fact that your whole economy is and remains based upon deception – which is why the world still rightly sees you for exactly what you are – whatever your very expensive PR puff says
There is no doubt that Guernsey’s economy is indeed based on a finance sector. Did the segment of the finance sector with which we are involved bring the world economy to it’s knees? No. Did a tiny percentage of our finance sector play any role in that at all? Guernsey was barely involved in the offshore SPV market for CDOs. Cayman and Jersey seemed to have that market pretty much to themselves. We might have played a miniscule role, if in fact at all.
What does that mean? It means that if only a miniscule role MIGHT have been played by Guernsey, then our very well-regulated finance sector did not play any role in it at all.
What “asymmetric information” did we facilitate which played a role?
Dave Jones’ post is no propaganda – he is absolutely right. Blame us for what is our fault, but please don’t when no blame is due.
Since the enture Guernsey industry is based on asymmetry – because of secrecy – that’s just utter nonsense
But keep your heads in the sand. That way you won’t see the end coming
That’ll be the exact same secrecy which exists in the UK then….no register of trusts, and no disclosure of beneficial ownership of companies. In fact, there is no regulation of fiduciary services providers or company formation agents whatsoever in the UK, so we are streets ahead.
Hmm….very interesting.
Stuart is right, the UK is riddled with pockets of secrecy, you can’t even find out if you are a UK citizen how judges are appointed in that country. You also have any number of quangos costing the UK taxpayer millions, nobody knows how the selection process works for those appointed to these gravy chain talking shops. If TJN and Richard as its self appointed leader is so interested in recovering money for the exchequer, why doesn’t his organisation start to look at the billions wasted by the UK government on dodgy defence contracts and the billions of EU contributions that disappear down the EU drain every year for instance? Think of the tax breaks they could recommend to the government for their people if all this criminal waste was abolished. Or TJN could launch an investigation into how the Labour government got the country into trillions of pounds of debt, instead of trying to blame these islands for their problems. Or why so much talent and wealth is leaving the UK for more sensibly governed jurisdictions. As for having our heads in the sand Richard could not be more wrong, it is by keeping alert and ahead of the curve that has made us so prosperous. Respecting the international rules of the game having low taxes and charges that’s what keeps us viable because its what everyone wants and if only the UK learned a little from us then they could be just as successful instead of the country circling the drain as it is at the moment.
David Jones
It’s fascinating that you think TJN so important Dave.
The only reason must be the impact we’ve had on you.
For all your bluster I think you might know we’re winning the debate hands down. Why else are you so engaged here?
And if you want an explanation for the UK’s problems you need only read my book – the Courageous State which is deeply critical of thsoe who got us into the mess we’re in- Labour included. Available on line. But not from the CI. That would not involve tax abuse.
Richard
The reason why Dave and others are so vocal about TJN is because of its endless unjustified lies and propaganda against the Crown Dependencies. Fair enough if you have valid and provable claims, as we should be castigated when we are at fault, but most of what’s published is just unsubstantiated garbage. We are engaged in lawful tax avoidance and we do not support tax evasion in any way. But as far as you are concerned tax avoidance is a crime and we are therefore all criminals! We uphold the individual’s right to privacy, but not to evade paying taxes.
Yes we make some errors, such as not controlling the fulfilment industry sufficiently, and that’s certainly something for which we should be criticised.
Our finance industry is massively regulated (many if us would say excessively), even if the Premier Shareholders Group claim otherwise (I remain bamboozled that they don’t pursue their case through the legal system, assuming that they actually have a valid case). We don’t want to be disrespected by our neighbours, we barely touch Continental European business (and the EU is therefore paranoid about us for no reason), and the fundamental area of disagreement with you is that you don’t believe that legitimate tax planning is morally acceptable and that it should be made illegal. Until it is, we will no doubt continue to defend ourselves against your claims, as well as attack you every time you deliberately misstate our constitutional position.
If we simply allow your inaccurate claims to go uncontested, then are we not de facto accepting them to be true?
Go on then
Answer all the evidence in here – all of it. Jersey Finance said they would and hadn’t, using language like yours
The simple fact is we do our research and are always right
That’s what scares you witless
And that’s what makes you lie – as we have the facts, and you don’t
But if you want to spend two years providing data – as we have – please try to prove your case
Richard we don’t have to prove our case, we are a very successful offshore banking jurisdiction that speaks for itself on the global financial markets. I do think that all lobby groups are important especially when they get things so badly wrong. As to why I bother to engage with you? Well I am happy to put our legitimate case to anyone who is willing to listen. I see it as part of my job to explode some of the myths peddled by people who appear to understand very little about the role of the Crown Dependencies. In any event Richard, you don’t expect to have a clear run on this subject do you? If as you claim you are winning the debate “hands down” why are we still flourishing? Why is the IMF the OECD the FTAF and other world financial bodies content that our version of what we do is more accurate than yours, we have a clean bill of health from all of them. Why is the Lord Mayor of the City of London keen to tell us just how valuable we are to the city in terms of the billions in business we channel their way and which helps fill the tax coffers of your profligate government? I will probably buy your book, maybe you could send me a signed copy and I will be happy to send you a cheque by return of post.
Note what has been said of Barclays today
Unless they abandon tax havens the company will suffer
It is you who is in cloud cuckoo land. And the City is too. You should get out of St Peter Port sometime – and I don’t mean nipping over to Herm (much as I love it)
But what’s the address?