Cameron faced his backbenchers yesterday on the EU, and lost.
But the EU was not the whole reason for this. Polly Toynbee had what was, without doubt, the best line on this issue:
But the "in or out" debate was never just a dry calculation of national interest. The two sides stand for profoundly different visions of the good society. A few Labour mavericks straddle the divide, but most anti-Europeans are from the far right for good reason. To them EU red tape, health and safety, human rights and labour regulations throttle British business.
Their vision is of a Britain thriving by undercutting basic protection of the workforce — working hours, maternity rights, holidays, sickness, security at work, equal treatment of agency workers. Read the sceptics' outpourings to see their vision of our island as a low-tax, maybe flat-tax haven for the super-rich, free to treat employees as "flexibly" as they like. This is a fine distraction from the real cause of our worsening economic crisis — this government's extreme austerity choking demand.
She's right. Those voting against Cameron weren't just anti-EU. They're anti society as we know it in the UK and want to throw it all over in favour of radical transformation that will hasten the flow of funds from the poor to the rich; something flat taxes are designed to do.
If in doubt look to their inspiration across the pond: Rick Perry is proposing a flat tax. There is only one explanation - and that is that these taxes push governments to the very margins of existence - which is exactly what their proponents want. If in doubt look at the detailed analysis of the proposal by my friends Citizens for Tax Justice in the USA. They say Perry's plan would give:
- Enormous tax cuts for the richest five percent of taxpayers and of $209,562 for the richest one percent in 2010.
- Tax hikes for all other income groups. The bottom 95 percent of taxpayers would pay an average of $2,887 more in federal taxes in 2010.
That's what the Tories oppising Cameron really want.
There's going to be a role for those in favour of tax justice for a long time to come.
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……..Their vision is of a Britain thriving by undercutting basic protection of the workforce — working hours, maternity rights, holidays, sickness, security at work, equal treatment of agency workers……
No she’s not right.
If we had a thriving economy where there were jobs for all then the competition would ensure that those who paid the best with the best working conditions would get the best workers.
The idea that you should legislate working conditions puts every worker on an equal footing and some of them will not give damn. It nearly always stifles a companies ability to compete.
Polly should get some industrial experience before she starts spouting about something which she obviously knows little!
Yours is the attitude that put children up chimney’s and down mines
It has no place in civilised society
God almighty what a pathetic reply!!
No, an entirely appropriate one
Fool.
This is a society where employers consult illegal databases (which of course they had no idea of their existence, even though they paid for them) to find which workers were in a union, had raised safety concerns with other employers or had been dismissed for any of a variety of actions….most perfectly legal but not “employer friendly”
And where employers do not allow workers their legal right to be consulted on health and safety and welfare issues.
Ask the workers in China about working conditions, and their living conditions near to factories and mines.
This country has long “cut the red tape” by simply relocating production to countries where workers have few rights…..full employment, but few rights….except do what you’re told….
Obviously: You are in management.
Those early Victorians had no employment rights legislation. And very little government regulation. Just what right-wingers would like to see… And prey do tell. What were average working conditions in mines and factories like in the 1840s?
Good grief a website populated by a bunch of luddites living in the 19th century!
Get real guys!
Respectfully, that’s precisely what we are
Now unless you have something useful to add please do not trouble me again with your comments
Nothing to do with the fact that the EU is undemocratic?
Did you vote for your MEP?
The European Parliament has very little power. Virtually all European power comes from the unelected EU Commission.
There’s a real problem with characterising everyone who has doubts about the EU as a right-wing loon. There is a longstanding and well-developed argument from the left which sees the EU itself as an instrument of corporate power, with an inbuilt bias towards monetarism. Unfortunately that is being drowned by the noise from the right, and the lack of confidence of much of the left.
The left began to see what came to be characterised as ‘Europe’ as the only way of reigning in the excesses of Thatcher when it lost confidence in the 1980s. So many on the left began to to see being ‘pro-Europe’ as a measure of being progressive, focusing only on the social aspects and not the economic. The Tory right doesn’t like the social aspects, but are happy enough with the free-market economics.
Hence the debate being characterised as it is above. But it’s a mistake to class anyone who is sceptical about the way the EU is run as anti-society. Many who criticise the EU from the left do so precisely because they are pro-society. The argument about sovereignty goes beyond Tory flag-waving and nonsense about the Queen’s head and right to the heart of issues such as democracy, accountability and transparency.
Constantly putting ALL criticism of the EU into the ‘Tory, xenophobic, anti-society’ bracket only serves to strengthen the forces we need to be opposing.
I was referring to the right wing objectors
There is a strong left wing argument for reform of the EU and I support it
The premise on which the EU is built – the free movement of capital – is a false one
But my comments do fairly apply to the Tory opponents
Agreed, but I think the distinction has to be made clear. If it’s not, it splits the opposition to militant free-marketism. I’ve been called a xenophobe a number of times for criticising the current EU model by people who have agreed with me over both social and economic policy — it seems to be a bit of a blind spot on much of the left. Conceding criticism of the EU to the right means that criticism of the EU and the debate around future UK policy is shaped by the right.
Dear Mr Murphy the following video looks at the effects of inequality on individuals.
Richard Wilkinson: How economic inequality harms societies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ7LzE3u7Bw
Whats wrong with the flat tax, People seem to misunderstand who pays for the tax? if tomorrow we impose a 70% tax on dentists, the cost of that tax hits those who consume the services of the dentist. for instance I understand that aviation fuel carries no tax, this has allowed many budget airlines to prosper and provide travel opportunities to the poor, for instance £5 return london – milan.
As Krugman shows, flat taxes shift income to the rich http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/18/tpc-does-herman-cain/
I did the same here http://www.taxjustice.net/cms/upload/pdf/AACA_flat_tax_report_-_JUN_2006.pdf
If that’s your aim they’re fine
And your example is evidence oif just how harmful they are – no tax and we literally burn up our world
Milton Friedman demolishes most of these arguments for regulation, the minimum wage actually hurts those its meant to help, in a recent video Nassim Taleb mentioned a babylonian concept about risk
Nassim Taleb on Banks, #OccupyWallStreet, & Hammurabi’s Code
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKdH_mhJP-E
Milton Friedman worked on a blackboard
He never went out into the real world
I live in the real world
I never see blackboards out there
But if they did economist’s blackboards would be covered with the comment “2/10. Do again”