Clifford Singer at The Other Taxpayer’s Alliance has done a great job tearing apart the government’s new Spending Challenge website.
As he notes the libertarians and racists are out in force (why do they go together?)
And this has to be a prime example as a result of a waste of government money. Odd that.
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“libertarians and racists are out in force (why do they go together?)”
They don’t. The BNP is pretty hard core left-wing. Its slogan is “The owners should work and and workers should own”. It wants to tax the rich, end free trade, renationalise industry and give the government huge power over the lives of the citizenry. Why do you think the BNP strongholds are the Old Labour heartlands? You don’t exactly see much support in rural Oxfordshire.
By contrast a libertarian ought not to care about social engineering – everyone just does what they please, which means free trade, free movement of workers etc.
@Charles
And with the greatest of respect, I don’t believe you
Ought not is a weasel phrase covering the reality that libertarians care very greatly about destroying the social infrastructure of Europe
So please do not misinform here – it does not become you
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism
So, Noam Chomsky, John Stuart Mill, Thoreau, Emerson, no doubt Rousseau as well, indeed, the whole tradition of enlightenment thinking reduced to a simple dumb word: libertarian. And then linked with racism to boot.
“The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy states “libertarianism holds that agents initially fully own themselves and have moral powers to acquire property rights in external things under certain conditions.” It notes that libertarianism is not a “right-wing” doctrine because of its opposition to laws restricting adult consensual sexual relationships and drug use, and its opposition to imposing religious views or practices and compulsory military service.”
It seems to me that libertarianism is fundamentally very sound and essentially tolerant in nature.
I think what you are opposed to is something very different, namely the hi-jacking of society by the wealthy who then seek to impose their will upon others. That is fine, but the essence of libertarianism is precisely NOT to impose your will on others. Without wishing to be rude or in breach of Godwin’s law, your use of the word “libertarian” is pretty much as appropriate as Hitler’s appropriation of the word “socialist”.
@mad foetus
I entirely agree the word libertarian has been abused
Dammit, if you use the real definition it is very clear I am a libertarian. I consider myself to be so – I genuinely want to provide the individual with the opportunity to make choice.
But just as the far right in Germany claimed the word socialist as their own – wholly inappropriately – so have the right claimed libertarian as their own – wholly inappropriately because the programme they promote is clearly intended to deny choice to mist by providing privilege to a few
In the process they claim to have no desire for social engineering – when that is their very obvious aim
And most who seem to be libertarian also seem incredibly keen on restricting immigration – whilst promoting the free flow of capital
So yes I do equate the vernacular association of the term libertarian with the right and with racism
And I think rightly so
UKIP is a good example
I really need give no more
So lets stop theorising and talk reality – because it’s the reality I engage with
Yes, Richard Murphy
I always find myself stunned when so-called intelligent people make such comments as you have highlighted.
European history 101.
However, I am obviously ‘more left’ than you, because i do not believe that the individual can make the correct choice without resorting to base.
I would agree if the the base were raised, but in this climate of 21st century greed i cannot believe that the individual knows best. If it does, then I am much more anarchist than libertarian.
Libertarians, it has been proved, have no respect. Anarchists wear their hearts on a sleeve.
Property is theft. Simply.
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“so have the right claimed libertarian as their own”
Much of what today is called libertarianism has come from the right because conservatism and liberalism forged together in the face of the rise of socialism. Libertarians have claimed the word, which started in America, because particularly there socialists hijacked the word ‘liberal’ which is now synonymous with economic illiberalism.
Libertarians (or ‘liberals’ in pre-1960s terminology) are those who believe in liberty and freedom from state compulsion in both financial transactions with others (economic liberty) and non-financial transaction with others (social liberty). Broadly speaking, socialists believe in snatching liberty away when the transactions involve finance, conservatives believe in snatching it away when the transactions do not involve finance, and fascists believe in stamping out freedom irrespective of whether or not money is involved in the transaction.
What word will libertarians have to come up with to distinguish themselves from the kind of libertarian who wishes to stamp out one or other of those freedoms once the word ‘libertarian’ has been hijacked, too?