Comments on: Britain’s big companies aren’t paying tax http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2008/05/20/britains-big-companies-arent-paying-tax/ Richard Murphy on tax and corporate accountability Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:04:14 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Tax Research LLP http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2008/05/20/britains-big-companies-arent-paying-tax/#comment-442740 Tax Research LLP Sat, 31 May 2008 13:12:06 +0000 http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2008/05/20/britains-big-companies-arent-paying-tax/#comment-442740 Diogenes For the data on overall rates see The Missing Billions (just search this site). Since there is no world tax rate and since these companies are UK based the only comparator that is valid is the UK rate. Your argument on CT being an unnecessary burden is absurd. On that logic income tax is also an unnecessary burden on people. It is not: we need what the tax pays for, as does business need what CT pays for. And the evidence is that if CT was cut the result will be increasing income disparity: nothing else. Richard Diogenes

For the data on overall rates see The Missing Billions (just search this site).

Since there is no world tax rate and since these companies are UK based the only comparator that is valid is the UK rate.

Your argument on CT being an unnecessary burden is absurd. On that logic income tax is also an unnecessary burden on people. It is not: we need what the tax pays for, as does business need what CT pays for.

And the evidence is that if CT was cut the result will be increasing income disparity: nothing else.

Richard

]]> By: Diogenes http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2008/05/20/britains-big-companies-arent-paying-tax/#comment-439717 Diogenes Mon, 26 May 2008 12:59:36 +0000 http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2008/05/20/britains-big-companies-arent-paying-tax/#comment-439717 I cannot find a reference in the article to the overall tax rate of these companies - ie the ration of worldwide tax divided by worldwide pre-tax profit. That is the key ratio rather than the arbitrary UK ratio of UK corporation tax to UK attributable profit.. In any event, corporation tax is an unnecessary burden on businesses. Businesses already contribute rates and employer's NIC, landfill tax, insurance premium tax etc etc. Their employees contribute VAT, council tax, income tax, CGT, employees' NIC, stamp duty. If corporation tax were scrapped, we could all get a pay-rise, which Fat Gordie would then clawback through increased income tax and NIC. I cannot find a reference in the article to the overall tax rate of these companies - ie the ration of worldwide tax divided by worldwide pre-tax profit. That is the key ratio rather than the arbitrary UK ratio of UK corporation tax to UK attributable profit.. In any event, corporation tax is an unnecessary burden on businesses. Businesses already contribute rates and employer’s NIC, landfill tax, insurance premium tax etc etc. Their employees contribute VAT, council tax, income tax, CGT, employees’ NIC, stamp duty. If corporation tax were scrapped, we could all get a pay-rise, which Fat Gordie would then clawback through increased income tax and NIC.

]]> By: john b http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2008/05/20/britains-big-companies-arent-paying-tax/#comment-437244 john b Thu, 22 May 2008 11:08:01 +0000 http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2008/05/20/britains-big-companies-arent-paying-tax/#comment-437244 I was going by the information presented in the Times article to which you contributed, which made reference solely to 2007 and strongly emphasised the 2007 numbers. I don't think it's reasonable to criticise me for criticising you for only looking at one year's figures when your piece only referenced one year's figures...! Presumably the reason BAT has been able to do this for many years is that instead of repatriating overseas profits, it's used them for investments and expansion overseas...? I was going by the information presented in the Times article to which you contributed, which made reference solely to 2007 and strongly emphasised the 2007 numbers. I don’t think it’s reasonable to criticise me for criticising you for only looking at one year’s figures when your piece only referenced one year’s figures…!

Presumably the reason BAT has been able to do this for many years is that instead of repatriating overseas profits, it’s used them for investments and expansion overseas…?

]]> By: Tax Research LLP http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2008/05/20/britains-big-companies-arent-paying-tax/#comment-437161 Tax Research LLP Thu, 22 May 2008 09:43:17 +0000 http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2008/05/20/britains-big-companies-arent-paying-tax/#comment-437161 John B You're right in para 1 You're right in the first part of para 2 (for now) But the point is that it has done this for many years This is not a one year analysis. This is not a joke Please do your research Richard John B

You’re right in para 1

You’re right in the first part of para 2 (for now)

But the point is that it has done this for many years

This is not a one year analysis. This is not a joke

Please do your research

Richard

]]> By: john b http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2008/05/20/britains-big-companies-arent-paying-tax/#comment-437157 john b Thu, 22 May 2008 09:28:06 +0000 http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2008/05/20/britains-big-companies-arent-paying-tax/#comment-437157 If the parent company is UK registered, it can only pay dividends to shareholders out of its post-tax income (whether that's 30% UK corporation tax, 20% foreign tax plus 10% UK corporation tax, 30% foreign tax and no UK tax, or 40% foreign tax and no UK tax). So in the long run, BAT can't get away with paying less than 30% tax on its global earnings - or at least, it can't actually pass that money onto its shareholders. Taking one year's figures and saying "ooh, bad, evil" based on that is a complete joke... [companies like Shire, which relocate the parent company to low-tax jurisdictions from which they can directly pay out dividends to shareholders, are completely different - in that case, it is indeed possible to avoid UK tax] If the parent company is UK registered, it can only pay dividends to shareholders out of its post-tax income (whether that’s 30% UK corporation tax, 20% foreign tax plus 10% UK corporation tax, 30% foreign tax and no UK tax, or 40% foreign tax and no UK tax).

So in the long run, BAT can’t get away with paying less than 30% tax on its global earnings - or at least, it can’t actually pass that money onto its shareholders. Taking one year’s figures and saying “ooh, bad, evil” based on that is a complete joke…

[companies like Shire, which relocate the parent company to low-tax jurisdictions from which they can directly pay out dividends to shareholders, are completely different - in that case, it is indeed possible to avoid UK tax]

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